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Unread 03-26-2016, 12:16 PM   #16
Dave Gobis
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I have done my share of things I should have never done. Two stand out. One was a subdivision for a custom home builder who wanted to do track housing for some silly reason. The were all to be 1/4 ply over 3/4". The guy said if I wanted to keep the custom work we had to do those that way. I did it, and replaced about a third of the floors within a few years. Then he found someone else to do the custom work because we were "no good". The other was a church I sent helpers to do because we were too busy to get there and stay on schedule. The Pastor called me up and asked me to stop by. He quietly met me at the door and took me over to look at the tile work. I told him he didn't have to say anything, we would be back to tear it out in the morning. I think the biggest difference between then and now is we knew what we were doing. Now everyone thinks they know what they are doing but in reality don't have a clue. Yet they remain thoroughly convinced that while they have never had a mentor or a lick of training they are much smarter than some fat old man. Evidently not, because I am there and that is a bad sign. I am starting to slow down because I am at retirement age and it is getting too frustrating. I say this as I sit and type up a proposal on Saturday for a school in Ohio that has a bunch of cracking and lippage issues. Here is another irony. A few of the boys drove right by the facility coming back from an Audi dealership where the tile was exploding off the floor. The price to look at the school job was half of what it will be now because he needed to get school board approval.
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Unread 03-26-2016, 04:23 PM   #17
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You know, for a long time I've been resistant to the push for certifications and where that might lead. I've felt as though we where losing yet another trade that could be apprenticed and turning it into an academic pursuit.

Recently I was at a seminar and Peter Neilson said in passing (and I'm paraphrasing) that tile used to be mostly skill and a little knowledge, but the trade has become one that requires a lot of knowledge. I've mulled that statement over for a while and then last week I ripped up a kitchen floor that was failing after 6 months and two other contractors attempts to fix it. I found no less than 6 installation errors starting at the very bottom. A subfloor of 5/8" ply with no T&G and no blocking, CBU with no thinset underneath, joints not taped, wood screws about 10" on center, the thinset was either very cheap or way over watered, 1/4" trowel for 18" tile spread so haphazardly that many tile had no thinset under them at all an 1"+ in on the corners and edges and none of them had adequate coverage, and the porcelain tile was not back buttered. The tile came up so clean only 3 tile in 400 s.f. broke. I popped most of the floor up with a painters 5n1, it never should have happened.

All this to say, I guess I have to capitulate and change my position on certifications and a more unified/thorough training system of some kind.
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Unread 03-26-2016, 04:42 PM   #18
Autoplay
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Dave,if you don't mind me asking,what's getting too frustrating for you?
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Unread 03-26-2016, 06:02 PM   #19
Dave Gobis
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The skill level or lack there of. I like problem solving, but can't fix stupid. Spent much of my life training, did so full time at CTEF for 10 years. I am not fully on board with the "certification" in lieu thereof. Not as opposed as I used to be, but my own efforts are directed at awareness not credibility. Guess I am a hold over. It isn't just the tile trade that is suffering, it is any trade.

Nates job is a classic example. Had another one recently where the lady had MS, was in a wheelchair and a guy hacked in her floor which was busting out under the chair. Like Nates job, he did little if anything right, but had a license to do tile work in the state of California.

Another story, was doing a class in CA. One of the guys missed the first day of a 4 day installation class. He showed up the second day and I asked where he was. He had to take his C-54 test for the CA State Licensing Board. He passed. After spending a week with him I can tell you he knew nothing about tile but was a nice enough guy. Asked him how he passed it. Said it was 1/3 Safety, 1/3 Business, and 1/3 Tile. He had aced the first two and knew enough about tile from selling it a few years.

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Unread 03-26-2016, 07:49 PM   #20
Chad Deiter Company
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Which is funny cause I Aced the first and third
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Unread 03-27-2016, 07:57 AM   #21
MNTileGuy
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That's a pretty good percentage for FL, Dave. Granted yes, they are a populous state with lots of building, so it makes sense that more building = more claims.

Does FL win the prize for the highest percentage of your claims? I'd think TX would be right up there too with the amount of building and unskilled labor.
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Unread 03-27-2016, 09:17 AM   #22
Dave Gobis
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Brad, it would be hard to pick whether FL or TX were a bigger source. Think the biggest class action I was involved in would be TX but only because they lumped together three subdivisons. Get a fair amount of HOA type work in both states and very little to none in others. For years CA, TX, and FL have lead the nation in sales and claims. Don't work much in CA, other guys out there and too far to fly. My brother was just on a hotel in San Francisco though. Grout in a bucket residue in about 150 rooms. Residue complaints are getting up there in volume with normal installation complaints.

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Unread 03-27-2016, 11:04 PM   #23
MNTileGuy
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I assume when you're talking about residue, it's from Flexcolor, Fusion and the like? What has the solution been in these circumstances? It seems like some of these matte textured tiles and single component grouts don't play well together.
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Unread 03-28-2016, 05:05 AM   #24
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I would say florida is right on top. most of my inspection work these days is in south florida...especaily Miami Beach. Had 7 cases there last month

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Unread 03-28-2016, 05:12 AM   #25
tilemanct
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My main business has been ripping out and replacing residential showers for the past 5 years. Some as old as a year and the oldest being 5. I have not done a new construction whole house job in 6 years. I'm too expensive. The crews that come into these projects are fast and shine the turd just enough to pass inspection. Its not until years two or three that the problems begin and they are long gone. I used to get upset. Now I say thank you un skilled and un educated installers. The pennies you made for those installs are major dollars for me!! Dave I agree.. the trades are in serious trouble.
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