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Unread 03-14-2016, 12:56 PM   #1
ceramictilepro
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Change of Plane - is 100% silicone industry standard

Hello,

I am reaching out asking if industry standard suggest using only 100% silicone for all change of plane areas.

this is all the info i can see

A108.01 General Requirements: Subsurfaces and Preparations by Other Trades – 2013 [Revised]
Status: The publication available for purchase through TCNA and ANSI is current. There is an open PINS on this standard because a group of technical experts is working on possible revisions to section 3.7.5 (Saw-tooth movement joints). As such, changes may be balloted at a later date. Balloted changes may pass or fail.

thanks,
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Unread 03-14-2016, 01:26 PM   #2
dhagin
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Yes, silicone is recommended for interior joints.

See ANSI A108.01 Section 3.7. TCNA EJ171 may help too.
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Unread 03-14-2016, 03:57 PM   #3
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An engineered profile also works if you don't want to mess with caulk.
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Unread 03-14-2016, 07:38 PM   #4
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Actually, silicone is listed as one of the "suitable sealants" under A108.01, 3.7. For exterior vertical tile surfaces and for both exterior and interior horizontal tile surfaces the recommended material is urethane. But silicone is the more commonly used.
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Unread 03-14-2016, 09:18 PM   #5
dhagin
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The silicone recommendation came from EJ171 in the handbook and is the only sealant recommended for both vertical and horizontal interior surfaces. Silicone, by inference, is also recommended in ANSI by listing it and NOT recommending the others that are listed for interior vertical AND horizontal joints.

Couple ways to get to the same recommendation that I believe our friend Jason was looking for - change of planes within a shower.
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Unread 03-15-2016, 06:49 AM   #6
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EJ 171 references Sealants as defined under ASTM.
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Unread 03-15-2016, 06:51 AM   #7
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I'm guessing the regular colored caulking they sell that's color matched is not 100% silicone ?
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Unread 03-15-2016, 06:54 AM   #8
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I hate to get back on this subject, but I do not use silly cone in the showers I build, and if I'm still part of the "industry," it means the standard is not industry wide.

I maintain that a well framed, generally well constructed, shower works fine with grout in all joints; and that is especially true of mud showers and showers that are waterproofed with sheet membranes. I am about to tile two Durock showers in my own house, and I assure you there will be no silicone in them.
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Unread 03-15-2016, 12:32 PM   #9
ceramictilepro
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John, thanks for chiming in on this. how would you rate movement inside showers? Cosmetic or structural?

Others feel free to comment too

Thanks
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Unread 03-15-2016, 02:46 PM   #10
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I would rate them based on the cause of movement. How do you rate them?
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Unread 03-15-2016, 07:24 PM   #11
ceramictilepro
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it has been my experience that most showers (95% or more) that I get called on to perform grout repair, are located at the shower floor perimeter, vertical/horizontal corners at curb, and a little bit at the upper vertical corners.

It's rare to see any cracked tiles at those same areas, however it does happen time-to-time.

My thinking is that tile installations are considered "cosmetic" and not structural . Wouldn't we be required to pull permits if tiled showers were considered structural?

If there happens to be more significant movement at the shower, and I start seeing significant cracked tiles running at areas other than corners, I would call that a structural issue and take it more seriously in regards to repair methods.

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Unread 03-15-2016, 08:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
I maintain that a well framed, generally well constructed, shower works fine with grout in all joints; and that is especially true of mud showers and showers that are waterproofed with sheet membranes.
I believe most of those showers were mud walls that had lath wrapped around the corner? I would think that this would help reduce the flex of the walls. It would be interesting to see if your Durock showers will have similar results or not.

I just know that when I switched to 100% silicone that my callbacks plummeted. Caulking/grout is still my number one callback but now it's only a couple of calls per year.
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Unread 03-15-2016, 08:27 PM   #13
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Work in showers is not excluded from permitting requirements. Whether one gets permits, or whether those requirements are enforced is another matter entirely.

And showers are not typically thought of as "structural" elements within buildings. They are regulated within the plumbing section of the codes as "plumbing fixtures".

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic..._27_sec001.htm
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Unread 03-15-2016, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
Wouldn't we be required to pull permits if tiled showers were considered structural?
Some of us ARE required to pull permits Of course, that doesn't guarantee anything. Here is a failed shower in a house that was only 4 years old.
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Unread 03-15-2016, 09:54 PM   #15
ceramictilepro
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regarding my comment about needing permits.

I am only referring to the actual installation of tile. If i'm waterproofing a pan with a schluter shower kit, yes, a permit is required.

If I start the job and it's already been hot-mopped and passed inspection, I am not aware of needing permits.

I'm not a plumber and have no idea what the specifics are in regards to permits for that trade. I am aware that shower valve replacements require permits because I am the guy who cuts the tile out of the valve area to allow the plumber to do his magic, then I will patch the area with new tile.
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