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Unread 01-12-2016, 06:27 AM   #16
Tile & Stone
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A few years ago i got involved in a zoning dispute. When i called around to a few land use attorneys, i couldn't ask any questions whatsoever before making an appointment or being billed for a phone conversation. Seems everyone here is entitled to some compensation!!!

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Unread 01-12-2016, 12:34 PM   #17
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Vick, everything in stone veneer (that is intended for outdoor use with brick mortar like type S & N) that I've seen in recent years has a very rough back. I believe that change may have been because of exactly the kind of failures you describe. That might point to a partial manufacturer liability.
Your demo photos show a smooth substrate, do you know what it is? To use a type N or S mortar for vertical bonding, it really needs a scratch coat to increase the surface area, like in the image below. If it was Hardibacker, you just can't get type S & N mortars to bond directly to it on a vertical surface, and you should expect failures like your photos show. Both point to installer error, unless there was a very specific recommendation from the manufacturer.

The basic problem is that brick mortars just won't work to bond two smooth surfaces on a vertical wall. That's been known for many decades. Polymer modified thinset was invented in the 50's!
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Unread 01-12-2016, 08:09 PM   #18
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Word of advise to all installers.

Save your TDS for all products used for specific job/date in a folder. With a stroke of the find, edit, delete keys manufacturers change TDS. All previous information will be forgotten.
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Unread 01-12-2016, 11:31 PM   #19
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took me a moment there..TDS... technical data sheet of product information
trouble with imported stone/slate from the far east is there is no recommended installation procedure on the product ......

so its going to boil down to GC or Cilent vs installer and wonder if it was a low bid got the job
as was it stated that the installers may have limited experience shall we say?
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Unread 01-13-2016, 08:42 AM   #20
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I always have used 4xlt until they came out with the Masonary Veneer mortar. Never had an issue. I go that route because of seeing so many strip malls with stones falling off set with spec mix.
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Unread 01-13-2016, 08:58 AM   #21
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I agree with Kevin, in the age of computers not hard to keep those TDS sheets around. Find myself looking at them often in situations such as this.
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