Kids Bathroom Renovation

[arnav]

Hi All,

Background:
- South Florida 3 story town home. 18 years old.
- Small kids bathroom renovation 5’ x 8’ x 9’
- Haven’t been demoed yet
- The tub’s back wall is cinder block (external)
- The two adjacent walls are steel studs (internal)
- Putting in a steel Tub. Lifting a cast iron 3 stories up was out of the question and I was concerned about the longevity of acrylic.
- Waterproofing: poly or felt.
- I have access to the plumbing from below and from the side


I used an inspection camera to peak at the back wall. Tiles over sheetrock. No CBU.
They used 1 x 2 furring strips instead of 2 x 2s like the rest of the house (see pic from another bathroom that was already demoed).
These 1 x 2s are very flimsy and there is no way I am keeping them.
But here is my predicament. With the current 1 x 2s, the toilet is exactly 15” O.C. to the bathtub edge as per code. If I use 2 x 2s the bathtub edge will be moved closer to the toilet (not meeting code).
I can’t move the toilet since it is also already 15” O.C. to the smallest vanity we could find. Yes, small bathroom…

So,

1. Can I make it work with 1 x 4s? I know ideally screws should bite at least 1” so I don’t know if 1 x 2 or 1 x 4 really help in that regards.

2. What about 1 x 4s, hold the CBU in place with a few temp screws and use tapcons to screw the CBU directly to the blocks (through the moisture barrier and 1 x 4s)?

3. I can notch the 2 x 2s in half so that the Tub is no further away from the wall than it is now, but the CBU and tiles will cover a lot more of the flange than they otherwise would making it look weird?

What do you think?

[cx]

Well, you're not lettin' any grass grow under you between projects, young fella.

I think I'd like to see photos from farther back to get some perspective on what you're showing us, Dan.

[arnav]

Not really if you ask the Mrs.

The pic is from another bathroom where they also used a 1 x 2 furring strips so a perspective on that one won't help. I haven't demo'd the bathroom yet so I can't show you the real thing yet (I used an inspection camera to see what is going on behind the tub).

Maybe this will help. I just removed a small section of drywall above the tiles so you can see what I mean with the current 1 x 2 furring strips.
The rest of the house uses 2 x 2 furring strips. Not sure what made them use 1 x 2 in the bathrooms.

Note to self: don't put weight on the soap holder

[ss3964spd]

I don't see that you have a lot of choice, Dan, you'll have to stick with 1X's on that block wall. The only reason I can see to swap the existing 1X2's for 1X4's is that you could fasten the 1X4's more securely to the wall.

Use either a CBU with a liquid based membrane or drywall covered with Kerdi.

[arnav]

Thx! I am happy the 1x4s is not a no-no. I'll make it work then. I may put a few tapcons through the CBU as well for a good measure.

Can't I use 6 mil poly as a moisture barrier?

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The bathroom is right underneath a termite hot spot in the Attic. Some years they win, some years I win. This year has been especially bad in FL. With the new renovation I’ll stay more on top of it but I am on a mission to try and avoid wood as much as possible.

I am looking for creative ideas as to what other materials I can use.

1. On the drain side, to overlap the CBU over the tub’s flange, what do you think about
furring over the metal studs with 1/4” PVC molding?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Royal-Mo...8005/202089995 (Royal Mouldings 1/4 in. x 1-3/4 in. x 8 ft. PVC Composite White Lattice Molding)
or rip from
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-...XWS6/312995340 (Veranda 1/4 in. x 24 in. x 4 ft. White Reversible PVC Trim/Sheet)

2. Similarly, what do you think about 1 x 4 PVC trim for the tub’s ledger boards:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda-...0408/301950305 (3/4 in. x 3-1/2 in. x 8 ft. White PVC Trim)

[ss3964spd]

You can use poly as a moisture barrier behind a CBU, but if you do then you do not want to use any other water proofing method.

I can't see any reason why you shouldn't use those 1/4" PVC strips to fur out the CBU. I would not use TapCon's for the CBU for fear of "screw jacking" the 1X furring strips off the block wall. I would ensure the 1X's are solidly attached to the block and then use only CBU screws to attach the CBU to the 1X's.

I would not be in favor or using 1X4 PVC for the tub ledger. The stuff is just too flexible and not to be used as a "structural" member. Surely there is some brand of termite resistant 2X4's available down there?

[arnav]

Got it.

• No TapCon

• Yes for 1/4" PVC CBU furring strips

• No pvc for tub ledger

Fair enough. I now need KDAT furring strips for the wall anyway. It's weird. Homedepot stopped selling non-green KDAT lumber down here. Lowes seems to have some. Otherwise, I'll track a lumberyard.

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1. The steel tub has foam underneath which kaldewei said should be kept there for deadening / leveling (a knowledgeable human actually answers the phone!). They said I don’t need to embed it in mortar but I can if I want to (and I will). Do you also secure the tub flange? S.S washers? Screw clamps? Kitchen sink like clamps? Tabs of some sort?

2. Any reason not to use a 24” long (I.D 22") shower niche if the dimension of the wall from tiles to glass door is 28”? I'll have 3" of tile coverage on each side. Just a matter of personal choice?

3. The toilet’s plumbing is fairly new and beautiful (cause I did it of course).
Could have probably used a metal strap to secure it further. I am wondering if I can avoid having to redo it. I know the flange has to sit on top of the tiles.
- Can I get away making a hole just big enough in the CBU to insert the toilet flange through it, tile, and then secure the flange again?
- Butt two sheets of CBU at the toilet flange?
Sorry, just looking for discounts...

[cx]

Originally Posted by Dan

Homedepot stopped selling non-green KDAT lumber down here.

Dan, I question whether your HD ever sold any KDAT lumber. I've never seen any such in a HD store, only regular treated wood. Indeed, in all of San Antonio, TX I think there is still only one lumber company that carries KDAT lumber at all. I haven't actually bought any for a couple years, but I know it's still not a common item in these parts. Perhaps it is in Florida.

And I would want KDAT if you plan to use treated wood in that application.

1. I would follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I don't see a link to the tub you're installing. You posted one?

2. I recommend you consult Mrs. Dan for such purely aesthetic decisions.

3. Not sure I understand the question. Mostly the "secure the flange again" part.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Maniac979]

Not a pro here by any stretch of the imagination...but why wouldn't you use a 3/4" metal furring channel?

[jadnashua]

Don't want to throw a wrench in the mix, but if your choice of a steel tub is that you think it will last longer than acrylic, you're probably wrong. The steel tubs dent easily, the paint chips, and they rust, steel being what it is, it doesn't take much for it to get messed up. Now, not all acrylic tubs are great, either, but some are pretty good. With either, you want to ensure they are bedded properly, or they'll flex which will tend to crack the paint on the steel ones, and put stress cracks in the acrylic. If they are well bedded, that flex will be eliminated if done right.

[arnav]

My concern with Acrylic was the cleaning with harsh chemicals bleach, Lysol, 409 type thing.

This is the Tub: https://www.kaldewei.us/products/bat...ct/cayono-5ft/

Tub library: https://www.kaldewei.us/service/medi...c7a892bd15dea2

Installation instructions: https://kaldewei-fa.secure.footprint...__________.pdf

Made in Germany! I looked for a while for a steel tub that was more on the modern side.
Definitely looks sharper than the 18yrs old steel tub it is replacing.

[arnav]

Lowes seems to carry quite a bit of KDAT lumber down here. Manufactured by "Severe Weather." I haven't checked its moisture content, but is listed as KD and "local pickup."

Here are some examples: https://www.lowes.com/pl/Pressure-tr...ies/4013895981

Direct link for a few in case the above doesn't work for you:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...umber/50121083
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564678
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564608
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564606
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Weat...Lumber/4564620

Unless I am missing something?
When I get some, I'll check the moisture content.


I remembered the HD website listed some KDAT stuff, but I can't attest as to which zip codes it is available in if at all. Maybe they can special order it? Seems to mostly be decking related lumber.

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/WeatherS...2398/305114196

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-x-4...2397/305114209

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x...8264/206185957

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-x-6...202D/202090638

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/8-ft-x-3...7455/313320342

• https://www.homedepot.com/p/KDAT-2-i...152D/202978802

[cx]

That's interesting, Dan.

I see no indication that the Lowe's products in any of your links are KDAT lumber. The HD links do say that and I admit I've never seen that before. I'm still a bit skeptical, but that's just my nature.

Please do tell us what you find when you go looking for the stuff. Even at my favorite San Antonio lumber yard where the KDAT material has been available for many years, it's not uncommon for me to check the piles and find the stuff registering above 30 percent moisture content.

Comes out of Houston, so maybe it was actually dried to under 19 percent and just got that wet after coming out of the kiln.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[arnav]

Please click / expand the "Specification" section (see attached pic).

[arnav]

Re:

Originally Posted by arnav

I am wondering if I can avoid having to redo it. I know the flange has to sit on top of the tiles.
- Can I get away making a hole just big enough in the CBU to insert the toilet flange through it, tile, and then secure the flange again?
- Butt two sheets of CBU at the toilet flange?

Basically, do you have to cut off and remove the PVC toilet flange if it is in a good shape?

Previously I would:
1. Cut off the toilet flange out so that I have a bare PVC pipe.
2. Screw the CBU down, with a hole in it so that the PVC pipe can fit through
3. tile
4. screw the toilet flange down on top of the tiles.

Whereas now, since the flange is in a good shape and fairly new, I am wondering if I can leave it be:

1. Unscrew the current flange from the tiles
2. Demo/remove the old tiles and CBU
3. Screw new CBU down but make a hole big enough in it so that the toilet flange can go through
4. Tile
5. Screw toilet flange over new tiles.

Only the tiles would hold the actual flange (since the hole in the CBU was made big enough for the flange to fit through when screwing the CBU down)