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Unread 01-25-2010, 07:20 PM   #1
lbhsbz
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Pat's 2 week Bathroom Remodel

Hi, name is Pat...cool website.

My tub, due to a lousy "refinishing" job..has been leaking since before I bought the house a few years ago...and it has taken on a certain trampoline effect because the subfloor/joist under the skirt has failed....so I got rid of the wife for 2 weeks and it's time to get to work.

The plan is to strip all the walls down to studs because I like a clean slate, and all the existing tile job bothers me...at some points, the quarter round goes into the wall a bit and at other points there's 3/4" away from the wall....so we'll make it straight.

I've got some nice porcelin ceramic tile (on sale), along with a little mosiac strip that I can use to take up space so I have to cut less tile (I'm lazy).

My plan is to shim the studs a bit to make the room fit the tub, then lay on a layer of 15lb felt. Over the felt will go hardibacker with the expensive screws, then tape the joints, thinset and tile.

Around the top lip of the tub...I was gonna use that sticky tar flashing stuff that comes in a roll, but after looking at the new tub (kohler) there isn't as substantial of a lip as I'd hoped for. Seems kinda not right to have 1/4" or less of adhesion between the sticky flashing stuff and the tub lip, but I dunno.



Does this sound about right or is there a better way.

Thanks,

-Pat

PS: I'll post some pictures for you guys to laugh at as I make (for lack of a better term) progress..LOL.
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Unread 01-25-2010, 07:29 PM   #2
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Welcome to our forum.

You said "around the bottom of the tub" Did you mean the lip of the tub to the studs?
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Unread 01-25-2010, 07:31 PM   #3
Brian in San Diego
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Pat,

Welcome to the John Bridge Forums! I think your plan sounds O.K. You could attach your felt to the lip with some 100% silicone sealer . You just need to make sure that it all ends up inside the lip of the tub.

Please continue to post all your questions here on this thread. We'll leave the light on.

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Unread 01-26-2010, 12:25 AM   #4
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Yep..just reread my post.

My concern is the lip where it meets the studs...what's the best way to seal it?

Glue the tar paper on with silicone?

Use that sticky flashing stuff?

Plastic sheeting?

Which brings me to the next question...what's the best vapor barrier under the hardibacker? Plastic or 15lb felt or ????

I've never done tile before...plenty of carpentry and drywall work (I hate drywall work) but no tile. Should be fun...LOL.


Thanks again...you guys are great.
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Unread 01-26-2010, 06:43 AM   #5
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Pat, the 15 lb felt you are putting on the walls is your moisture barrier. No need for the sticking flashing stuff, no need to seal the felt to the lip of the tub. Instead, install one row of felt to the bottom of the walls, so it goes at least 6 inches above the tub lip. Install the tub against the walls per the manufacturer's instructions. If necessary, fur the studs so the backerboard will overlap the tub lip (or, you can notch the studs, but do this before installing the first row of felt). Install another row of felt, overlapping the bottom edge into the tub by a few inches. finish installing the felt with at least 2 inches of overlap, shinglewise, to the ceiling. Hang the backerboard so it comes within 1/4" of the tub deck. Trim the felt along the bottom of the backerboard. Caulk the backerboard to the tub with 100% silicone caulk.
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Unread 01-26-2010, 11:37 PM   #6
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So since my nice folks at the city informed me by way of a note on my still full trash recepticals that they don't pick up "contruction waste"...I started calling around today to find someone who would. One place said they could give me a 4 yard dumpster for $125, but I could only put 600lbs in it, which is rather pointless...the next option was a rolloff for $700. I contemplating renting a bobcat for $300 to dig a hole and bury it, but then consulted craigslist...guy said he'd be here in the morning with a 4 yard dumpster and fill it up for $150. Cool....

I tore the tile of the lower half of the dry walls on sunday and the spent 4 hours scraping up the floors (notice the "s"...there were several) and figured that tub suround demo and the ceiling would be no big issue...until I hit it with a hammer after work tonight. There was buttonboard, then plaster, then lath, then more plaster, then felt, more lath, and an inch of morter, then thinset, then tile. So, while the dry walls came down nicely, the shower walls don't. This sucks.

What I learned:

1: Even though it's just clay, tile, if smacked with a hammer just right, can break to a point sharper than any other, and slit your finger real good.

2: When cleaning out the bathroom to begin demo...put your first aid stuff in an easily accessable place....so you can use proper bandages instead of a shop rag and duct tape.

LOL..


Needless to say, I'm not gonna have much for the guy in the morning but a hot cup of coffee and a beer for when he gets done with his coffee....and I've gotta take a sponge bath tonight cuz I don't feel like lugging 1000lbs of crap outta the B-room.

Will I ever learn?... most likely not. This is fun....gotta go change my shop rag and find more duct tape.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 12:28 AM   #7
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3rd thing I learned... When you slam your sliced finger in the door it hurts even more than usual...
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Unread 01-27-2010, 06:17 AM   #8
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And, what so wrong with a shop rag and duct tape?

Seriously, you did learn a hard lesson about the importance of PPE (personal protective equipment). It could have been worse, you know...

Leather gloves, safety glasses, ear plugs, and a good dust mask should be closer to you than your tools.
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Unread 01-27-2010, 07:02 AM   #9
Brian in San Diego
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Pat,

There was a discussion over in the Pro's Hangout about getting rid of construction debris. Here's one solution. Check it out and see if they service your zipcode. Here's a link to the thread.

I second Bob's sentiments regarding safety equipment. But shop rags and duct tape do work in a pinch.

Brian
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Unread 02-01-2010, 11:49 AM   #10
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Porcelein tile edge polishing

I found some nice porcelein tile for a good price, and I'm planning on using it for a tub surround. I'm going to have some exposed edges, and I'd like to polish them to match the face of the tile...or come pretty close.

My folks are using a similar tile and had this done, and it looks great. Their tile guy said he used an angle grinder with sander discs on it...going from 80 - 400 grit. I tried my angle grinder with an 80 grit disc on it and all it did was smoke.....didn't hardly scratch the tile.

I tried some 400 grit Norton paper and that seemed to remove some material, but what do I use to get the shine?

Any way to do this with materials readily available (like at HD?).
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Unread 02-01-2010, 12:23 PM   #11
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I'm assuming you've got through-body porcelain? In other words, the inside is the same color as the surface?

I talked to a stone fabricator about polishing porcelain versus granite tiles. That guy would polish granite for me, but not porcelain because he said it was too hard. Not that it can't be done, just that it's harder to do than granite. So I went with granite and had him polish them for me.

I've never done it myself, but I can almost guarantee you that you'll need diamond polishing pads. The sand on your sandpaper is probably about the same hardness as your porcelain, and hence you will not get very far unless you go with diamond. There's a nice discussion about what you'll need here: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=79326. I'm skeptical that that contractor did it with "sander discs," but good luck if you can get it to work.

If diamond pads are too much of an investment to do it yourself, and if you can't find a local fabricator to do it for you, then you might want to consider finding a pre-manufactured bullnose piece for your porcelain. Many tiles come with a bullnose option, but typically you make sure of that before you purchase your tiles.

Good luck!
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Unread 02-01-2010, 01:42 PM   #12
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Hi Pat,

you really need a bullnose profile wheel for your wet saw.
As said, polishing porcelain is very diffict since it is a very hard material.
I have on numerous occassions used the profile wheel and made bullnose. The wheel itself will make it pretty smooth and passable for a finished edge.

This job I did all the bullnose from cut field tile.


and here you can see a corner soap shelf I did a bullnose on a piece of porcelain tile
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Unread 02-01-2010, 04:26 PM   #13
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I'm not really looking to remove much material to make a bullnose...just looking to maybe soften and polish the edge. I've been doing some research, and it appears that a silicon carbide sander disc might do what I need it to do. MK Diamond makes 'em. Seems no tile stores in my area have em though. I was able to find some sheets of S/C sandpaper at the local hardware store from 120 all the way to 1200, so I'll give it a quick shot tonight and see if it works...if it does, I'll cut out some circles and glue them to my D/A sander and go to town....

Edit...just found a guy on craigslist with diamond wet/dry polishing kit for $40, so I picked that up.

Incase it turns out like crap....those alum. and plastic edge moldings...how do they hold up over time?
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Unread 02-03-2010, 11:28 PM   #14
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Pat's 2 week Bathroom Remodel

I've made a couple posts looking for advise...and have received plenty.

I'll be adding pics to this one. I've run into several problems which I solved rather creatively...so hopefully someone else can get some ideas.

I bought my house about 2 years ago...typical cookie cutter 2bd/1ba built in 1942. The bathroom is 5x9, with the tub against an exterior wall. The tub was leaking due to a crap refinish job a long time ago, the subfloor was rotted, and the wife is outta town for 2 weeks so here's my chance.

Demo took about 4 days, and I had to pay someone to come out and haul everything away.

To get the old tub out, I grabbed my trusty come-along and a tie down. Threw the tie down over a ceiling joist (about 12" from the wall) and ran the come-along between the tie down and the overflow hole on the tub. I had the tub stood on it's end in about 5 minutes. It was loose after all the tile came out...so I wouldn't recommend this procedure for un-setting a stuck tub, but it worked fine for standing it up once it was loose. The new tub went in the same way...wheeled it into the bathroom on end, then using soft strap around a 2x4 through the overflow hole gradually lowered it using the come-along...took 15 minutes with my dad (helper) standing there drinking a beer instead of wresting a 350# tub. He was impressed...and so were our backs.

Had to re-plumb as well since the previous owners had used a single 1/2" copper feed to service the kitchen sink, bathroom sink, shower, toilet, and dishwasher...and we had a bit of a pressure problem when 2 devices were run at the same time. I ran a 3/4" feed into the wall and short 1/2" branches to all the components. Hopefully this will solve my problem...at least one of them ... LOL.

I'm also switching the toilet and the sink...moving the toilet closer to the tub and the sink away from the tub, because we have a little one on the way and there will be more room by the business end of the tub without a vanity in the way.

I'm using 12" porcelain ceramic tile in the shower, and have plans for a frameless clear glass sliding showerdoor, so the walls must be plumb and flat. When I built the kitchen 2 years ago, I had a hell of a time shimming the walls correctly, so I've devised a new approach which took all of about 1 hour per wall and was dead accurate. First, I put a mark on every stud every six inches from the floor to the ceiling. Then I did some shimming to make the first and last studs perfectly plumb...verified with both a level and a plumb bob, confiming that the PB string was a consistant distance away from my shim at ever 6 inch point. Instead of trying to use a 8ft long shim, I've decided that if I use predetermined screw locations, I only have to shim in predetermined locations. I put a drywall screw in the first and last stud at ever six inch mark, and ran my stringline back and forth across all the studs. Then I grabbed a cardboard drywall shim cut into six pieces and went to every point, seeing how many I could slide behind the string without making it move, then adding one to that number for compression, and marking that number at that point on the wall. After every stud is marked every six inches with the required number of shims, I took 3 inch long pieces and stapled them on. I chalklined my drywall and CBU to my required screw locations and hung it all up. It took me about 30 minutes to shim one wall, and it's dead plumb and flat. If my studs were actually straight, I suppose it would be easier, but they're not...they're all bent....so this idea worked better, and came up right the first time. I redid the kitchen 20 times and it's still not perfect, but good enough for drywall..LOL

My sink ended up directly in front of my soil stack, and since every drain in the house ties in under the floor in this particular location, there's not much room to cut the iron pipe and use a no-hub rubber thing to tie in a sink drain. So, even though it's not to code, I hole sawed a hole in my soil stack and used a 1 1/4" NPT tap that came in one of my NPT tap sets to cut threads in my hole in the soil stack, screwed in a 4" long galv. nipple, and using a plastic compression nut, secured my P-trap...it works well. I figure it functions the same as cutting a section out of the iron and adding an ABS san-tee, just easier. The iron is 3/8" wall so I've got plenty of thread engagement. Pop's approved, and he's an engineer. The inspector (there's no inspector) would find plenty of other stuff to bitch about in this house I'm sure.

So, I've got 3 plumb and flat walls around the tub, granite guy is cutting my corner shelves and window sill tomorrow, so tile should go up on Friday.

The tile place gave me some "Siena M100 polymer modified mortar". Is this the right stuff to use for ceramic tiles over hardibacker? They also told me I could polish the edges of the tile with an angle grinder....which didn't work for $hit, so I'm now questioning the rest of what they told me.

Thanks for the help once again and the great website.....pictures to come!
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Unread 02-03-2010, 11:34 PM   #15
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Pat,

One of the policies of the forum is "one project, one thread". I've combined three threads you started that all appear to pertain to the same project. Please use this one to ask ALL questions regarding this project (no matter how diverse they may be). Threads don't wear out and some have been know to become epic in their length.

Brian
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