Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 01-07-2010, 02:54 PM   #1
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Doug's Bathroom Transformation...I Need Help

Hi there. I am new to this site and this is my first post. I am wanting to take out vinyl in my bathroom and put in ceramic tile. When I removed the vanity I could see there is some sort of 1/4" backer board under the lino. I chipped a piece off and took it to Home Depot and Rona and nobody could identify it. Not hardibacker or K board or anything else they were familiar with, but similar. The surface is fairly hard, and the middle is crumbly - like a fibrous drywall with a harder surface. Whatever it is - it's stapled to the subfloor every 2-3 inches around the perimeter and approx. every 6 inch in the middle. It is also glued to the subfloor but no thinset. I need to remove it as there is some sort of divot/dip in the middle of the floor, and this mystery board does not cover the whole floor anyway. I intend to replace it with new 1/4" wonderboard (thinset + screws as per manufacturers recommendations of course!) before tiling. The trouble is how to identify it and make sure it does not contain asbestos or anything hazardous, and then how to best remove it. I tried scraping the lino off so I could get at the staples, but that did not work too well, and the board would still be glued down anyway. Home Depot suggesting ripping it piece by piece with a pry bar. The house was built new in 1993.
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 01-07-2010, 03:25 PM   #2
Shawn Prentice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 525
Welcome Dlavis

It sounds like particle board, but regardless it does need to come up. Then you need to make sure the subfloor underneath will be adequate for your tiling plans.

First you need to get it up. It may come up easy or not so easy depending on how well it's glued. Set your saw to cut through the depth of the underlayment only and make a series of grid style cuts (safety glasses, dust mask, and try to avoid cutting the staples) and work each area with a flat bar, chisel, etc. until you have removed all the particle board. Then report back with some pictures, or sooner if you have additional questions during the demolition.
__________________
Shawn
Shawn Prentice is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2010, 03:53 PM   #3
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Shawn, thanks for your quick reply! It is definetely not particle board, as it is not wood - it is like a cement board type of product, which is why I was concerned about asbestos since nobody could identify what type of board it actually is. But I am told since my house was built in 1993 there is zero chance it is an asbestos containing product. I just wanted to try and verify. I will take pictures when I can and post them. Thanks again!
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2010, 04:11 PM   #4
Shawn Prentice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 525
I agree about the asbestos not being in it unless they saved from many years before it to use on your house Interesting it's not PB or ply. How easily does it break up? What color is it?
__________________
Shawn
Shawn Prentice is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2010, 04:18 PM   #5
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Breaks up very easily between the staples, with the exception of where it is glued down. Surface is a grey color, and the crumbly middle is white. It looks very much drywall, and even snaps like it, except is has quite a hard top surface. I'm working on the premise that if it was a regular cement backing board you would think someone at Home Depot or Rona would have recognised it. The bottom seems to have a slight shallow corrugation to it. I tried a small cut with the circular saw last night and it makes a lot of super fine white dust.
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2010, 04:22 PM   #6
Shawn Prentice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 525
Okay, it's fiber reinforced gypsum. Should come up fairly easily.

Have a shop vac with a good filter and you or someone to hold it near the saw to catch most of that dust as you cut.
__________________
Shawn
Shawn Prentice is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2010, 07:01 PM   #7
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Moving on to the next step!

I managed (with a jack hammer held at a shallow angle to the floor, a wide spade attachment, a whole day and a LOT of effort) to get the fibre reinforced gypsum, staples, and most of the glue up from the plywood floor. Naturally, in the process, I put a few healthy gouges in the plywood. Should I fill these gouges in with some thin set to "level" the floor, let it cure for 24 hours, and then do a whole layer of thin set mortar for placing the wonderboard underlay? Or should I do it all in one step and assume the thin set will just fill in the gouges? They are localised, and the deepest is probably 1/4 - 3/8" deep. Or should I use a different product to fill in the gouges in the plywood?
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2010, 08:17 PM   #8
tileman2000
New England Tile Man
 
tileman2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,382
Just fill the low spots with thinset the same day you prep the floor.Once you spread more thinset for the wonderboard the low spots will be taken care of.
__________________
Michael
tileman2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:24 PM   #9
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Set my first ever tiles tonight but had problems with them moving around too easily!

Hi there. I am a newbie, laying my first tiles for a bathroom floor. I mixed the thin set as per the instructions on the bag and until I thought it was the proper consistency (like peanut butter). I slightly dampened the wonderboard, spread the thin set out for four tiles (I had previously laid out lines for squares of 4 tiles), combed it at a 45-degree angle with the recommended trowel notch size, slightly dampened the back of the tile, buttered the back of the tile with a thin layer of thin set, and then placed the tile. The problem is, once I set additional tiles around, and tried to use spacers and line them up with my lines, they slid so easily on the thin set that I had to keep re-adjusting each tile. They moved very easily - even though it was only 1/8" to 1/4", it was enough to mess things up, and because I had spacers in there, when one moved, the adjacent one moved too. I tried to tap them into the thin set with a rubber mallet and wood, but they moved each time. I also had lots of thin set squish out the sides, and because I'm new at this, I got lots of thin set on the top of the tiles as well. Every time I tried to clean the top of the tiles, they moved around from the pressure. My question is, too much thin set, or wrong consistency, or something else? When I put the tile in, should I feel it make contact with the wonderboard, or is it completely supported on thin set? Any advice would be greatly recommended before I continue tomorrow night!! Thanks so much.
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:25 PM   #10
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it!
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:30 PM   #11
ceramictec
Tampa Florida Tile Contractor
 
ceramictec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 26,457
your trowel notch is either too deep or your thinset is a little too loose,
I'm going with a combination of both.
__________________
Brian
........
..........Tampa Florida Tile Installation
..............^^--Check out our Blog--^^
Tampa, Florida installer of Schluter Kerdi/Kerdiboard waterproofed showers
Tampa, Florida installer of Laticrete HydroBan/HydroBan board waterproofed showers
ceramictec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:33 PM   #12
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Thanks caramictec. The trowel notches are the recommended size, so must be the thinset. By too loose, do you mean not enough powder / too much water? i.e. I should make it thicker?
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:33 PM   #13
Brian in San Diego
AC Specialist -- Schluterville Graduate
 
Brian in San Diego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Quinta, CA and Usk, WA
Posts: 10,791
dlavis,

What size trowel and what are the tile dimensions? Ceramic tile? You shouldn't be wetting the backs of the tile IMO. You probably don't even need to backbutter them. Burning the backs would probably be sufficient. By the sounds of tile sliding all over and thinset on the top of the tile I think you have too much thinset down. Since you are new did you try mixing the thinset according to the manufacturer's instructions?

Edit: A classic example of why we want all project questions on one thread. Background information readily available on original post. We can change the title to something more fitting of the overall project. Please ask all your project questions on this thread.

Brian
__________________
Brian
If that doesn't work, I'll always think it should have.
Brian in San Diego is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:40 PM   #14
dlavis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10
Brian, the tiles are 12x12 and 1/4" thick, porcelain. They have a cross-hatch grid of ridges on the back - not sure if all tiles do or not? The trowel notches are 1/4" x 1/4". Because I was only laying a few tiles I could not mix the whole bag of thinset to the proportions recommended, so I just tried to get a peanut butter consistency as recommended by a buddy. But I did follow the directions of mixing for 5 minutes, waiting for 10, and then mixing for 2 more. What does burning the backs mean?
__________________
dlavis
dlavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-19-2010, 09:46 PM   #15
Brian in San Diego
AC Specialist -- Schluterville Graduate
 
Brian in San Diego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Quinta, CA and Usk, WA
Posts: 10,791
Burning the backs is to trowel a very thin coat of thinset with the flat side of your trowel...just enough to skim those "cavities". Your trowel size sounds about right. I think you may have too much or too loose thinset like Brian (Ceramictec) said.
__________________
Brian
If that doesn't work, I'll always think it should have.
Brian in San Diego is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Doug's Shower Remodel - help dawedler Tile Forum/Advice Board 89 09-26-2018 10:51 AM
Lane's Fireplace Transformation laniepoo7 Tile Forum/Advice Board 77 03-26-2013 06:55 AM
Doug's Shower Remodel bxga Tile Forum/Advice Board 112 06-17-2010 06:33 PM
Paul's master bath transformation paulharris Tile Forum/Advice Board 41 10-30-2007 10:23 AM
Doug's Kerdi Shower p22101 Tile Forum/Advice Board 63 09-24-2007 11:03 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:20 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC