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Unread 09-06-2009, 01:27 PM   #1
CountThis
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Sanity check my bathroom remodel project please!!

To All;

I’ve finally completed the demolition of my master bathroom and am getting ready to move onto the next step. This is the first time I’ve tackled a project of this magnitude so I wanted to run the project plan but the forum.

The current state of the bathroom is that I have ripped out all of the old tile work, shower pan, toilet, rusted toilet closet flange, linoleum flooring, and pretty much everything else that is in the way of the new tile work that will go in. I plan on tilling both the floor and walls with 18x18 travertine (which I have already purchased).

The plan is as follows (in pretty much the listed order):

1) Frame shower enclosure, shower curb, and shower seat. Place 2 layers of ¾” plywood on the shower seat. I was planning on relieving the studs at the floor by the shower pan so that the liner will fit behind the wall backer board.

2) Move shower drain into the center of the now elongated shower enclosure

3) Remove old shower valves and plumb new fittings. I am planning on installing one 8” rain shower head and 1 hand shower. I bought 1 thermostatic valve and 2 volume controls to perform this function. All valves are ¾”. My supply is 1/2” so I plan on converting to ¾” before the thermostatic valve, then running ¾” to the volume controls and then ¾” from the volumes to their respective outlet. I’ll convert down to ½” right at the outlet.

4) Remove old bathtub (shower and bathtub are separate) fittings and plumb new ones. I bought one ¾” standard pressure balance valve for this.

5) Replace the bathroom window. It’s 20 years old and junky. As long as I’m at it I might as well replace that as well.

6) Install new shower pan. The plan on this is:
-a. Lay tarpaper down on wood subfloor. Cover with diamond lathe.
-b. Mix dry pack and form pre-slope. I was planning on 3/8” thick at the drain and 7/8” thick at the wall. The shower floor is 61” x 32” so which gives over ¼” per foot in the short direction and slightly under in the long direction.
-c. Lay down liner material over pre-slope. Run 8” up wall and over curb ( I was planning on maybe using a little construction adhesive to keep the liner in place by the walls). Install diamond lathe over curb for mudding. Cut hole at drain and silicone liner to drain flange. Staple within last 1” of material on walls and on outer edge of curb.
-d. Install matting drain flange piece and torque down bolts. Put a balloon in the drain and fill with 2-3” of water. Let sit overnight and check for leak in the morning. Drain in the morning if all is well.
-e. Place a small amount of pea stone around the drain to prevent clogging of the weep holes. Create shower mud base. I was planning on making it 1.25” thick.
-f. Mud shower curb. Final height between shower floor and top of curb to be 2-3” high (if anyone has a more solid number let me know).

7) Install tarpaper on walls with overlap where pieces meet. Install Hardibacker on shower walls and seat. Don’t put screws through shower pan liner. Run Hardibacker within ¼” of shower mud floor. I was planning on putting a bead of thinset behind the board where it meats the liner material to prevent deflection. Tape and thinset all joints.

8) On the shower seat I was planning on applying Redguard to the seat and short wall that separates the shower from the bathtub. One question is: should I Redguard the entire inside of the shower (basiclly all surfaces covered by Hardibacker) or just leave it at the shower seat and short wall?

9) Tarpaper bathtub walls and install Hardibacker. What kind of seal should be made between the bathtub flange and Hardibacker if any? I was planning on leaving a ¼” gap and then Redguard’ing the lower 1-2’ of Hardibacker. Then once the tile is in I was going to just silicone around the edge of the bathtub flange. Not sure on this one though.

10) Tile the shower starting at the walls and finishing on the floor.

11) Tile bathtub enclosure.

12) Verify deflection of floor is acceptable. Right now I have 2x10 floor joists 16” on center. Two of the bathroom walls are outside walls. There appears to be a large solid beam 8.5’ out and running parallel to one of the outside walls. The floor joists hit perpendicular to this beam. Then it’s another 4.5’ to the inside wall that the master bedroom shares. I do not believe there is a large beam supporting this inside wall. Sub-floor is currently 5/8” plywood. I think this is acceptable to lay travertine over, at least the deflect-o-lator seems to think so although I’m not sure how to deal with the 4.5’ section that ends at an inside wall (as far as acceptability of deflection).

13) Check flatness of floor. I was planning on using a leveling compound if needed.

14) Lay Ditra over subfloor. I was planning on letting it set for a night before I start tiling the floor.

15) Tile floor (about 90 sq ft)

16) Grout everything and then seal it.

Past that everything is semi-mundane. Chores like install the toilet, valve trims, shower door, transition plates from the tile to carpet, cut the doors shorter if needed, install vanity, etc.

Any ideas, comments, or criticism are welcome. I gathered all the information to compile my project from the internet and books.

I've attached 2 pictures of the bathroom I made in CATIA (I'm an Engineer ) Hopefully that gives a better idea of what is going on. The outside walls are the one bhind the bathtub and the one with the window in it. The brown blob is the vanity. Entrance to the bathroom is next to the short side of the vanity inline with the inner bathroom door (you can see the bathtub from the bedroom).

Thanks in advance!
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Unread 09-07-2009, 01:24 PM   #2
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Hi David, I think you're going to have to break this down for us a bit, but i'll take a few. Nice drawings btw.

1-3) look pretty good. Don't use treated lumber. How's the water pressure in there now?

6) Have you checked out the shower construction threads in the liberry?
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Unread 09-07-2009, 01:35 PM   #3
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What Dana said. You really need to break that up into smaller bites to get useful responses, I think.

I'll try to pick out some of the actual questions.

8. You can use a waterproofing membrane over the entire interior surface or use a moisture barrier behind the wallboard, but not both. Given that you intend to waterproof a bench area, I'd waterproof the entire shower.

9. If it's not a shower you don't actually need to waterproof it at all.

12. You'll need to tell us more about your joist structure, including the unsupported spans, to get any help with that. The distance to any or all walls on the floor in question is of no concern at all. It's the support from below that is of consequence.

The 5/8ths" subfloor is not at all suitable for your stone tile installation. You must have a second layer of subflooring and it would need to be an absolute minimum of nominal half-inch as far as I'm concerned. Another 5/8ths" would be better, properly installed.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-07-2009, 02:38 PM   #4
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Regarding the order, I'd also sort out #12 before doing anything else.
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Unread 09-07-2009, 11:52 PM   #5
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Many appoligies for squishing this all into one post....... sorry about that.

Thank you so much for all the responses! A few questions regarding your comments:

I measured the water pressure at an outside hose bib on the second floor (cold only). It's about 75psi. What pressure do you start running into trouble?

I'll check out the library threads tommorow while I'm at work (sshhh, don't tell anyone )

So as far as waterproofing goes, do not put tarpaper behind the hardibacker if I am going to use redguard over the surface of the hardibacker? Will this harm it in some way?

Joist structuring: I posted a picture below of the layout of the joists and support beams. I believe the support beams are over load bearing walls on the 1st floor so they are nice and solid. 2x10 joists are perpendicular to the green lines in the picture. Green lines are the load bearing walls/ solid beams. I'm really only concerned by the 3'8" span.

I'll add 1/2 - 5/8 plywood over the existing subfloor. Is the AC sanded stuff fine (it's the same price as the BC stuff)? I believe I read somewhere that it would be fine. What is the proper way to install it (you eluded to the fact that there was a proper way).

Thanks again!
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:27 PM   #6
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RedGard, Hardibacker, and Tarpaper.... too much?

In a post I made regarding the master bath project I am working on I had asked if I should waterproof the entire shower enclosure with Redgard after I have already put tarpaper behind the hardibacker.

Someone responded:
"You can use a waterproofing membrane over the entire interior surface or use a moisture barrier behind the wallboard, but not both. Given that you intend to waterproof a bench area, I'd waterproof the entire shower."

Why is this so? Is doing both detremental in some way?

Should I waterproof the surface of the entire shower with Redgard? If I can't have both (tarpaper and Redgard) I guess I would go with surface waterproofing since I think that is probably necessary for the bench.

ref post:
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=76955

Thanks!!
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:30 PM   #7
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What's your opinion on RedGard

What is everyones opinion on RedGard? Is there a product that is a better for waterproofing the surface of Hardibacker? Is there anything I should watch out for when using it?

I was intending on waterproofing my bench at a minimum.

Thanks!
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:32 PM   #8
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I would waterproof everything below the shower head at minimum.

I'm not a fan of Redguard, but many pros use it with success.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:38 PM   #9
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I was introduced to redguard along time ago and used it for a while until i found other liquid applied membranes. I would consider it an entry level product however. Currently, Hydroban by Laticrete is my liquid of choice followed by Laticrete 9235.

A few here really like the mapei HPG and a few others by mapei but i really dont have an opinion on them cause i havnt used them but a few noteable folks here swear by the stuff.

I have tried the TEC liquid and didnt really care for it.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:40 PM   #10
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search moisture sandwhich. Im alittle on the fence about this idea but it kinda makes sense, notice i said kinda.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:44 PM   #11
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Here's a good article on installing the second layer of subflooring, David.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:48 PM   #12
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Ooooooooooooh.........someone's gonna get a thread-consolidation spankin'.



You might consider looking at some of the Hydroban videos. Some of this stuff is all in the head, but melikes the idea of having a heck of a hard time of scratching thru Kerdi with my fingernail.

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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:50 PM   #13
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I'm right there with you Jeremy.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 09:52 PM   #14
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David, please don't start a new thread with each question. If you'll bookmark this one and ask all your project questions here, folks'll be able to see the specifics of what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.

We don't spank our visitors, Randy, we just try to make things easier for everybody hereabouts.
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Unread 09-09-2009, 11:46 PM   #15
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Sorry about that CX, I thought when you guys said break it up into smaller chunks you were saying to break it up into a few different posts.
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