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Unread 04-29-2014, 04:00 PM   #1
madmantrapper
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How do I handle this

I went out on a job today to replace a bathroom floor and this is what I found.Name:  julie.jpg
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The floor joist are 2x8 full size spanning 11 feet. There are some scabs on each side supporting plywood. The top of the joist are cut to a point. Then there is something that looks like black dirt packed in on top of the plywood to the top of the joist. There is a sandy concrete poured on top of the dirt about an inch to an inch and a half thick. I say sandy because it looks a little brown but it is very strong mix for being thin. The top layer of floor was one foot square vinyl with 3/4 inch mosaic under it on top of the concrete. None of the concrete was cracked and all tile was tight. I had to bust up the concrete to get the mosaics off. My question is would you replace the concrete and install new tile or would you build up the floor with new plywood and hardie then tile. I have seen mud decks over plywood but never anything like this. Could use some advice.
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Unread 04-29-2014, 04:23 PM   #2
Richard Tunison
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Those pointed joists are evidence that there was originally a mud floor from the ply up to the top of the joists. They pointed the joists to try to eliminate movement cracks on both sides of a "flat top" joist and it worked well.

Lose the black stuff no matter what you decide to do.

A dry pack mud floor is most always optimal for many reasons including being able to make it super flat and level but if the scabs are well done your plan should certainly work.

Got Pics ?
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Unread 04-30-2014, 03:45 AM   #3
madmantrapper
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I'll try to get pics today. The scabs are about 3 1/2 inches from the the top of the joist. I doubt if the mud was 4 inches thick when original. It looks like the black stuff was just a filler to support the concrete while it hardened. I have a hard time believing the concrete at a 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch thick could be strong enough to span the 14 1/2 inches between the joists but it was.

I will try to get pics today and more advice. I think the dry pack would be easiest at this point. The only dry pack I have ever done was on shower floors but I guess if I can the preslope right I should be able to get one flat.

edit: helper just said he thinks the black stuff looks like asphalt millings
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Unread 04-30-2014, 05:27 AM   #4
Lakee911
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Regarding the joists: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...d.php?t=112234
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Unread 04-30-2014, 12:07 PM   #5
madmantrapper
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Jason thank you for the link. That is about what I have except the lower mud bed is black stuff like dirt or fine millings. Here are some photos.
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Unread 04-30-2014, 12:22 PM   #6
madmantrapper
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Pictures did not work, I'll try again.
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Unread 04-30-2014, 12:48 PM   #7
Lakee911
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Some sort of bituminous product perhaps?

It could be as simple as running out of proper materials and making do with something on hand. We have a lot of hack jobs and short cuts out there today ... can't expect that to be a new concept.
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Unread 04-30-2014, 12:59 PM   #8
madmantrapper
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I'll try more.
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Unread 04-30-2014, 01:01 PM   #9
madmantrapper
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This was done 40 years ago, 100 year old city house in Baltimore, MD.
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Unread 04-30-2014, 01:06 PM   #10
madmantrapper
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I am figuring I am going to sister the joist and get everything flat and as level as possible. This seems to be the easiest route at this point. I don't think burying the plumbing pipes in concrete is a good idea. Some of the supply lines are sitting above the joist but I think that was the result of the beveling.
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