Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 03-25-2021, 08:03 AM   #46
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
Scott, if you'll look in the Shower Construction thread in the Liberry you'll find information on the difference between deck mud/dry-pack/floor-mud and fat-mud/wall-mud. Not the same mix and it matters.

You do not need welded wire mesh in the top mud bed of a shower unless the square area exceeds 65 square feet.

You do not use welded wire mesh anywhere else in your shower. You'll want 2.5lb. expanded metal lath for the curb, not wire mesh.

Doing the curb first is fine. The top mud bed must be a minimum of 1 1/2" thick and should be of consistent thickness to follow the slope of your liner.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!

Last edited by cx; 03-25-2021 at 09:36 PM. Reason: typo
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2021, 09:33 PM   #47
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Thanks CX!!

Thanks CX!! When I referred to Wire Mesh for the curb a was talking about the expanded metal lath. I should know better than to be so general....always comes back to bite me. Thank you for clarifying

I will use Quikcrete mortar mix for the curb as per liberry. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Stay safe out there!!!
Attached Images
 
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-27-2021, 04:25 PM   #48
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Duct tape under mortar?

CX, Davy, anyone?

How thick should mortar on curb be?

Is small amount of Duct tape ok on Expanded lath edge UNDER MORTAR? (probably irrational but to protect from liner puncture).
Attached Images
  
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott

Last edited by Sclib; 03-27-2021 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Spelling
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-27-2021, 05:04 PM   #49
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
Thick as it needs to be to make the dimensions you want. The technical minimum is 3/8ths of an inch. The maximum you'll wanna try in one pass is about 3/4ths of an inch and I'd not recommend you try more than about a half-inch on your first try. I usually try to make mine about a half-inch or a little more all around and add to the top if necessary come time to set tile.

I wouldn't do the tape thing. If you're really concerned, bend a half-inch or so at an angle toward the inside of the shower so it points into the space that will be filled with the top mud bed. It won't hurt anything there and may not even hurt you any more if you're careful. Might get in your way when you're mudding the curb, but you can work around that. Easiest thing to do is simply be careful when you install the over-bent lath onto the curb. That liner is pretty tough.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2021, 01:52 PM   #50
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Water in Keyholes after leak test

Thanks CX for quick response on the curb questions above.........

So, I performed a leak test on my pan last night. Water was at same level this morning so no leaks. Water drained well off the pre slope (there were a few little dime/quarter sized water drops left on pan an hour after I drained it. My concern is the keyhole areas in top flange. They have water sitting in them? It is hard to see but liner is bulged up a little in each keyhole which is from silicone that squeezed and was caught between liner and 2 flanges. Is this normal or something I should be worried about? Weep holes seemed to be doing their job with last bit of water draining thru them. But very confused about water standing in these keyholes?
Attached Images
  
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott

Last edited by Sclib; 03-28-2021 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Add text
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2021, 03:08 PM   #51
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
Not a problem so long as the weep holes are not blocked.

I prefer the flood test wait until the final installation of the liner, which you don't yet appear to have accomplished.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2021, 03:23 PM   #52
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Thanks CX

Thanks CX. Planned on doing the leak test again once I had corners on liner. Just wanted to play with my new stopper and am procrastinating cutting the liner at the corners. Don’t know why I am so apprehensive and uncertain about liner corner step??
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2021, 08:31 PM   #53
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
If your "new stopper" is not an inflatable ball that fits down into the riser pipe, I'd recommend a new new stopper.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-28-2021, 11:03 PM   #54
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,403
Like Cx said, you want the test ball or stopper to go down into the riser pipe which is down below the drain.

On the curb, just wanted to make sure you understand that the lath needs to be one piece that wraps over all three sides. Over crimp the lath into a U shape, doing that will cause the lath to hug the curb since no fasteners can be used. If the lath wants to bulge out anyway, slap a scratch coat of mud on the curb and place a few bricks against the lath to hold it against the curb/liner. Let that set over night and mud over the scratch.

Edit; This is a little different but wanted to show you the scratch coat. On my mud walls, I can't add nails along the bottom so I place bricks against the scratch coat to hold the lath in till it sets. You can do the same with the curb if you need to.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-29-2021, 11:14 AM   #55
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Ball Stopper and curb lath

CX, Davy, thank you and all great info. Yes my test ball is inflatable type. Thought it was visible in pics but maybe not. Photo of what I’m using below. Going out to cut liner now and install dam corners.

Be safe out there!!!
Attached Images
 
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-30-2021, 01:02 PM   #56
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Corners In!!

Corners are glued in....not pretty but I’m sure they are effective. I struggled with them a bit as I did not want to make the liner cut (irrational I know) along the top of the 2x4 curb. Ended up just letting liner curve up the 2x4 onto the wall. Letting them cure now overnight before I go forward with installing lath. There are some areas that ended up with a triple layer of liner. I checked these areas for level with CBU prior to final dam corner installation and I might have 1/16” or so bow out at bottom when CBU is installed on the non shower head side only. Gonna have to live with that.

I have changed my mind on order of mudding curb first and doing top mud deck. I am thinking I want to put lath in place (1 piece continuous as Davy says) then install bottom pieces of Durock and install mud bed. Rationale on this is mud deck will hold in the bottom of lath inside shower pan and make it easier for me to mud the curb. Similar to Davy suggestion of scratch coat on lath held in place by bricks. DOES ANYONE have an issue with doing it this way (top mud deck before mudding the curb).

Any suggestions as to order....(1)Install Bottom Durock (2) place lath over curb against Durock on each end (3) install top mud deck
OR
(1) install lath (2) install bottom Durock over ends of lath (3) install top mud deck

Either way I do it, holding Durock up off the liner about 1/2 inch but embedded into mud deck.

As always, input is greatly appreciated.

Stay safe out there!!
Attached Images
 
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-30-2021, 07:19 PM   #57
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
Don't know quite how to say this, Scott, by my recommendation for your next step is to remove the CBU currently on the walls and put, or plan to put, large peieces on the bottom such that you can fasten them adequately above the pan liner to make them fall straight down into the pan where they will be secured with the top mud bed.

At the curb, if you did not recess the studs at the ends of the curb sufficient to accommodate those folds you made, you're almost certain to have problems.

If, in fact, you managed to make folds of the liner at the curb ends without making any cuts at all, the inside dam corner for sure is not needed at all.

Perhaps you planned to hang metal lath over the entire shower and mud the walls and I'm off base here completely? I might think that except I see not moisture barrier behind your wallboard lapping over the liner.

Those bricks laying in the bottom of the shower are making me think there is some serious misunderstanding afoot here.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-30-2021, 07:46 PM   #58
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,403
Back in posts 32 and 33 he shows the studs notched. Not sure if the studs at the curb are notched enough for the folds.

I agree that it's best to have large pieces of cement board on the lower walls. Small pieces of CBU will only have fasteners across the top of the sheets.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-30-2021, 09:30 PM   #59
Sclib
Registered User
 
Sclib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Posts: 89
Ouch...but not the end of the world.

I did cut the liner, just not across the top of the 2x4....cut it straight up 2x from top of 2x4 curb to near bottom of CBU.

Studs are notched sufficiently for liner and all liner folds except for the possibility of curb corner at wall opposite shower head. This is where I estimate possible 1/16’ flare out at bottom of CBU near curb only. As mentioned in above post, I used a piece of CBU to check plane and level at bottom prior to fully gluing in the dam corners (with a straight edge and level).

Bricks are only placed in the pan to hold liner down in corners while I worked on the dam corners. I am NOT lathing and mudding entire shower. Will use Aqua Defense or Red Guard over CBU. Bricks are a non issue....sorry for the confusion.

As far as the bottom CBU piece goes, I kinda had the small pieces as a question in back of my mind but no one had said anything....now you have. Thanks for catching my error. It’s not the end of the world. Some unscrewing and repositioning to get larger pieces at the bottom. Is a 24” piece on bottom sufficient? Are 11” pieces sufficient as long as they are in middle of field and not on bottom? Obviously I can put rock screws closer together than 8”. This would make my life a lot easier.....No repositioning of Niche piece and shower head/mixing valve pieces. And no going back to store for more CBU

Hopefully writing in pic below is legible and helps to clarify what I’m proposing above?

Are either of you comfortable at this point addressing questions about doing deck mud before mudding curb....and if bottom CBU can go in prior to molding lath around the curb?

Thanks to both of you and I eagerly await your response.

Stay safe out there!!
Attached Images
  
__________________
“Every day you learn something new is a good day”!!!

Scott
Sclib is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-31-2021, 08:32 AM   #60
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,165
You can fill in the 11" pieces in the center of the wall so long as you properly fill and tape the joints. I'd rather not see them in there at al, but anything is better than having them at the bottom.

Two feet would be about the absolute minimum size I'd wanna see at the bottom of the walls.

You can do the wallboard and curb in any order.

You can do the final mud bed and curb in any order, but I would always wanna do the curb mud first.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting Shower Tile Job ejpuot Tile Forum/Advice Board 12 03-15-2012 07:58 AM
Need Help with Starting Shower Tile agstaff Tile Forum/Advice Board 18 02-02-2009 09:21 PM
Starting a tile shower elliemaeisme Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 01-25-2005 06:29 PM
starting to lay tile in shower Timothy S Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 05-31-2004 12:56 PM
Starting to Tile the Shower (Yikes!) Crickett Tile Forum/Advice Board 13 05-31-2004 07:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC