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Unread 09-17-2022, 09:11 PM   #1
nervousnewtiler
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Advice re: membrane for 1" mosaic tiles

Hi everyone!

I'm planning to tile my kitchen floor with 1" square and hex mosaic tile. I am not removing the counters and have very little space to work with under the dishwasher (can't raise it up very much off the subfloor or it won't fit under the counter), so I can't use regular backer board. For that reason, I was planning to install Ditra over the plywood subfloor, but I just read that the minimum tile size that can be installed on Ditra is 2", so that won't work for me.

Is there another membrane you would recommend that would work with 1" tile? I've looked at NobleSeal CIS, which seems like it would work, but I've read some people say it's difficult to work with, and I'm a newbie. I'm wondering if there would be a problem using a membrane made for waterproofing, like Guru, even though the kitchen doesn't need to be waterproof.

I'm putting this over 2 layers of plywood after taking out a floating laminate floor. The room is about 190 sq ft.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice you might have!
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Unread 09-17-2022, 09:22 PM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
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Welcome to the forum, Mike.

NobleSeal CIS is excellent. It’s easy to work with and very high performing. I’d use that any day! You can install it with their suuuuuuper sticky adhesive or use a modified thinset mortar. Do you have any thoughts as to what you might use to adhere it down if you end up choosing NobleSeal CIS?

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Unread 09-17-2022, 10:36 PM   #3
nervousnewtiler
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Thanks so much, Bubba! I was planning to use modified thinset but haven't researched which one. What would you use?
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Unread 09-17-2022, 11:03 PM   #4
Tool Guy - Kg
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If all other factors were equal, I’d use Noble’s NobleBond EXT adhesive. If the adhesive container was too large and wasnt cost effective, I’d use a really good modified thinset mortar.

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Unread 09-18-2022, 07:53 AM   #5
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Hi Mike,

You might already know that the front legs of the dishwasher adjust upward, but just in case you don't . . .
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Unread 10-04-2022, 09:23 PM   #6
nervousnewtiler
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Ardex WA on Nobelseal CIS?

Hi everyone!

I will be using Nobleseal CIS as the underlayment for 1" mosaic tile on my kitchen floor. I watched a Youtube tutorial in which he recommends an epoxy grout like Ardex WA for small mosaic tile, which seems like a great idea so I don't have to worry so much about thinset oozing up into my grout lines during installation. My question is whether anyone has used Ardex WA (or a similar epoxy grout) with Nobleseal? They recommend using modified thinset.

Thank you!

Mike
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Unread 10-04-2022, 11:30 PM   #7
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If you use the right size trowel for your tiles, you need not worry about the Thin-set mortar oozing. How thick are your tiles? You should achieve full mortar coverage for a floor tile. I'd experiment with a few different trowels to achieve full coverage without oozing. Oozing is bad, but so is insufficient mortar under a floor tile. Do some testing.

I'm not sure how your grout selection has anything to do with mortar oozing between tiles (which is bad and causes a ton of extra work) however, along with achieving full coverage with modified thin-set mortar I'd pay attention to Noble CIS instructions on where to place grout joints and soft joints in relation to substrate cracks, assuming you are using Noble CIS because you have cracks in your substrate.
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Unread 10-05-2022, 06:41 AM   #8
ss3964spd
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Hi, Mike,

We have merged your two threads since they concern the same project. Having all the details about a project in one thread helps all contributors by having the big picture. We can re-name the thread if you'd like.
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Unread 10-05-2022, 04:58 PM   #9
Davy
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I agree that you should avoid grout filling up the joints regardless of the grout type you plan to use. Most likely, somewhere you'll have too much thinset in the joints. It's something to watch for and clean out while it's still wet. Keep a bucket of clean water and sponge handy when installing.
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Unread 10-05-2022, 07:20 PM   #10
cx
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Welcome, Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
I watched a Youtube tutorial in which he recommends an epoxy grout like Ardex WA for small mosaic tile, which seems like a great idea so I don't have to worry so much about thinset oozing up into my grout lines during installation.
Not sure just what you might mean there. While the Ardex WA can be used as adhesive or grout, they clearly want the grout joints clean before grouting with it the same as if a different setting product had been used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARDEX TDS
Joint Preparation
(For use as a grout)
The existing tile must be set firmly. The tile joints must be clean
and free of all setting materials, dust, moisture and foreign
matter.
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Unread 10-05-2022, 08:11 PM   #11
nervousnewtiler
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Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!

Snets, my tiles are 1/4" thick. I'm actually using the CIS because I don't have any play in terms of raising my floor height, so don't have room for backerboard. My subfloor is plywood.

CX, here's the video in which he recommends using the epoxy grout (step 7), in case you're interested or have thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5c...omeRepairTutor

He does indeed seem to be recommending the Ardex because it eliminates the need to clean your joints before grouting. Thanks for emphasizing the need to do that anyway!

If I do choose to go with the Ardex WA, does anyone know if it's appropriate for use as a substitute for modified thinset, which is what Noble recommends?
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Unread 10-05-2022, 09:24 PM   #12
cx
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I've never used the product, Mike. Maybe it works that way, maybe it doesn't. But the way I read the TDS, the manufacturer seems to recommend against what he's doing. Up to you.

There are, or have been, tile installation product manufacturers who made cementitious products with specific liquid additives that they recommended for installing tile and grouting in one operation. Somewhat different scenario, and I don't think there is any way you're gonna do that with a two-part epoxy product. By the time it had cured enough to hold the tiles in place, it would have cured far too much to allow shaping and cleaning the grout joints. Still gonna be a two step process, and I'd want clean grout joints for grouting.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-05-2022, 10:14 PM   #13
nervousnewtiler
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Got it, CX. Thanks again.

Related question that came up as I considered this: the grout lines for my 1" mosaic tiles (Daltile Keystone tiles, connected in sheets with dabs of glue) are about 1/16". I've read elsewhere on this forum that it's difficult for amateurs to work with epoxy grout, but also that unsanded grout for small grout lines is prone to staining, and this is a pretty heavy traffic kitchen floor. Curious what grout you would use with this application?
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Unread 10-05-2022, 11:46 PM   #14
jadnashua
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I've not used it except to watch it during a demo, but Spectralock does allow you to use less of the 'sand' when mixing it up to make it easier to put into smaller grout joints. Others may do a similar thing. They have some neat versions like glow in the dark for that stuff.
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Unread 10-06-2022, 06:32 AM   #15
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As a DIY'er, Mike, I've used Spectralock Pro Premium epoxy grout in 3 bathrooms, with much of it crammed into 1/16" joints. As Jim noted you can "thin" the grout a bit by leaving out up to 10% of part C (the powder). It may help a little in 1/16" joints but probably not enough to matter.

While you'll have to work a little harder to install it into those 1/16th joints I find Spectralock PP to be no more difficult to clean up than any other grout I've used (admittedly, not that many).

Down side - it's certainly more expensive and, given your tile size and floor area, you're gonna need a bunch of it.
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