Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-28-2008, 01:11 PM   #1
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
Botched Shower Install - Restarting with Kerdi

I'm a newb to tiling - I've done a floor with good results but never a shower.

Wife and I bought this house 9 months ago and a couple months ago found that the tile shower in the master bath was leaking. It's a 3 wall shower, about 4x5' dimensions, 8 ft high.
_______
|.........|
|.........|
|.........|-the shower head is here, facing downward west.
|.........|

I started noticing grout cracks in the west wall lower lines. Quickly determined we had a water penetration problem. The install was only 2 years if that. Just a bad DIY. Guy didn't even use greenboard. Just reg. old drywall plus tile.

So I don't have the time to do this. I hire a contractor. I need to run some of his "issues" past you guys. I'm not having a swell time working with him and it's not cool that he's kinda feeding me BS. He's basically alluding that Wonderboard is a barrier - I know it's not - it's pourous. But I didn't want to get into a fight about it.

So, the current situation is he demo'd out the whole thing except the pan, down to the studs. including the ceiling. he replaced the insulation (the north wall is an exterior wall). He hung the wonderboard and taped the seams today. I ask him about vapor barriers, water proofing - he's playing dumb. I know he didn't put plastic behind the wonderboard.

I know the bathroom is well ventilated - good fan. large window. I'm thinking that good tile/grout work and me sealing all the lines up afterward SHOULD protect the shower from leaking water for a long time.

So I ask - who here things I'm an idiot for not running to the store right now to buy gallons of Redgard to put on the wonderboard before they come back? It's not cheap and I have heard mixed results. One one hand I think I should just buy it and apply it. One one other hand, I think, take care of the grout and the lines and it will be fine.

Please share your thoughts....thank you.

Please share thoughts on a contractor who says he's done showers for plenty long, and never used the liquid membranes. Is he BS'ing me, is he just "old school", or are those of use who really consider membranes/barriers/Kerdi just "spare no expense overkillers"? (That last one is meant to bring no insult, because I tend to be one of those people all the time. I have issues with water in the house. Don't like it.)

John
__________________
John

Last edited by JohninPA; 05-28-2008 at 01:18 PM.
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-28-2008, 02:18 PM   #2
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
From Custom Building Products Website:

Quote:
1/2" WonderBoard is unaffected by water but it is not
waterproof. If the area behind the backerboard must be
kept dry, a moisture barrier or waterproof membrane such
as RedGard® Waterproofing and Crack Prevention
Membrane must be used.
Tell your tile guy that if it's "old school" not to follow manufacturer's instructions, then he should drop out.

If you can't get him to remove the Wonderboard and install a vapor barrier behind it, and he won't apply Redgard on top of it (all the backerboard, not just the joints), then your left with doing it yourself.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 02:46 PM   #3
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
I seem to have the worst ability findind a self-sufficient contractor who isn't always trying to cut corners. I hired this job out so I wouldn't have to think about this. Turns out I'm watching his every step. I guess I'm off to go buy RedGard. Should I plan on covering all the walls and the purpleboard ceiling?

oh and right now, the wonderboard comes all the way down to the pan (the plastic liner over the lead pan is behind the bottom 2-3"s of wonderboard. where do I stop RedGarding?

Thanks so much for the advice guys. You're life savers.
__________________
John
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 02:57 PM   #4
e3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: mi.
Posts: 4,888
Send a message via Yahoo to e3
no slope under pan I bet!
Is the liner hooked in the clamping ring.
__________________
Eric
Noble Company
e3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 03:05 PM   #5
ddmoit
Veteran DIYer -- Schluterville Graduate
 
ddmoit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SE Tennessee
Posts: 8,884
You can stop the RedGard just above the shower head.

Based on what you've told us, I'm concerned about your pan.
__________________
Dan - a DIYer in SE Tennessee
ddmoit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 04:12 PM   #6
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
Pictures...what's the deal with the pan

this pan is the one that was there. It had a lot of cement in it that was hacked out. We all agreed the pan could stay. So my thought was that the pan's slope would be retermined by the tile guy coming in on Friday. He was saying he would be drawing some lines from the center of the pan to the four corners to determine his slope towards the drain.

Is this bunk? Should I be considering terminating services? I'm kind of on the ropes about just stopping with this guy and looking for a new guy to finish the job. PROPERLY. Or do it myself. I just don't know anything about tiling (and the prep beforehand) of the pan. That's always been my main problem.






also the liner is secured to the white flange that sits beneath the actual drain cover. we look ok on that front I think. THINK.
__________________
John
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:00 PM   #7
bljack
Registered User
 
bljack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 328
Sorry you've got a mess there. The white ring you describe for the drain has small holes to allow the water in the setting bed to drain when it hits the liner. No slope under it and then you get no drainage, stagnating water and a nasty shower. But, that's not the worst of your problems.

The insulation on the exterior wall is probably faced insulation. Before painting Redgard on those walls, you'd want to have sliced up the facing as you don't want it acting as a moisture barrier behind your redgarded walls.

Also, redgard is also not compatible with mastic and I get this funny feeling that's what your current contractor would use.

But the worst problem so far is how he installed the wonderboard. He fastened through the bottom. You now have punctured your liner below the drain level. Time to pull it all out and redo it all.

The taped corners look more like setting type compound than white thinset, too. What was used to tape those joints?

Why do I expect a picture of the curb would show the wonderboard nailed to it?
__________________
Brian
bljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:05 PM   #8
kerdibird
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 325
What you need bud, is one shower not two.
Tell that lazy hack to pack it in, because you need a mechanic, not a grease monkey.
kerdibird is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:11 PM   #9
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
well it may not be that bad...

I checked the pan and it's definitely sloping towards the drain as it sits there right now.

When you say you think he's going to use mastic, are you talking about to mount the tiles or to make the bed? I was originally only planning to redgard the walls since the pan liner should protect the bottom of the shower.

I have no way of knowing if he cut up the facing of the insulation. Worst case he did not. So we're saying, redgard is a bad idea?

I hate to throw in the towel at this point. If I let the tile dude in on Friday, how much of a disaster is this?

I'm ready to jump off a bridge.

The curb will be a marble molded piece - fairly generic.
__________________
John
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:13 PM   #10
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
kerdibird -

what exactly did you mean there?
__________________
John
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:16 PM   #11
ceramictec
Tampa Florida Tile Contractor
 
ceramictec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 26,465
John,

from what I'm seeing in the pictures there is no preslope under that liner, looks like a small hump.

and I hope they aren't nails at the bottom of the cementboard ??

and drywall joint compound is a big No No in a shower area.
__________________
Brian
........
..........Tampa Florida Tile Installation
..............^^--Check out our Blog--^^
Tampa, Florida installer of Schluter Kerdi/Kerdiboard waterproofed showers
Tampa, Florida installer of Laticrete HydroBan/HydroBan board waterproofed showers
ceramictec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:19 PM   #12
bljack
Registered User
 
bljack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 328
Quote:
and I hope they aren't nails at the bottom of the cementboard ??
No, don't worry Bri, those aren't nails...


































They're screws
__________________
Brian
bljack is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #13
ceramictec
Tampa Florida Tile Contractor
 
ceramictec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 26,465
if I were you I would halt all tile or anything done with this installer.

sorry to break the news to you but other with me think the same thing.

this is how a shower pan should be done : http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html
__________________
Brian
........
..........Tampa Florida Tile Installation
..............^^--Check out our Blog--^^
Tampa, Florida installer of Schluter Kerdi/Kerdiboard waterproofed showers
Tampa, Florida installer of Laticrete HydroBan/HydroBan board waterproofed showers
ceramictec is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:34 PM   #14
JohninPA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hatfield, PA
Posts: 36
ceramitec - how can you be 100% sure it's drywall joint cpd? I thought the same damned thing but it's been a while since I've seen thinset. thinset's gray and course, all the time, isn't it??
__________________
John
JohninPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-28-2008, 05:36 PM   #15
kerdibird
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 325
Sorry John, I didn't mean to be insensitive.
I have a private joke going about two for one showers, meaning a bad installation gives you one above and one below
A mechanic is an accomplished tile setter.
A grease monkey is slang for someone who works at an oil station.
If you feel this guy may in any way be closer to second of the two then say goodbye.
All I have to go by is your word, a few pictures regarding the job, and sometimes it feels good to say it how it is.
kerdibird is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC