Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 10-17-2020, 10:48 AM   #46
smifwal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,436
Are those staples in the inside of the curb?
__________________
Shawn
smifwal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 10:52 AM   #47
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
Yes staples were there but removed, and then a new hot mop tar layer was added to patch the staple holes. Sorry threads just merged by the administrators.

If no quartz curb, is it still possible to just use porcerlain tile to tile the whole curb? Or is that thin inside curb going to be very challenging?

Also, I assume that shower curbs with inside height that thin are acceptable, as long as the shower drains correctly? I mean obviously if I start kicking any pooling water around as I'm showering it could fly over the curb and under the shower glass.

And is it better to correct the bad pitch in one corner/quadrant by adding additional type S mortar (as in the original bed), special medium patch mortar, or letting the subcontractor use a thicker thin set layer? There is probably about 1/4-1/2" that it is off at the worst.

I don't think my GC is going to agree to tear out and redo the bed since all my checking and complaining about the job is costing him extra $ in days he hires the tile guy.
__________________
Kevin

Last edited by californiahomeowner; 10-17-2020 at 12:59 PM.
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 11:10 AM   #48
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,262
Kevin, please keep all your project questions on this thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. A moderator can give it a more generic tile any time you'd like to suggest one.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 11:24 AM   #49
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
Thanks. Maybe "Multiple questions about my shower pan construction. Homeowner seeking advice."
__________________
Kevin

Last edited by californiahomeowner; 10-17-2020 at 12:47 PM.
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 02:33 PM   #50
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 3,548
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
I don't know what your local code says out there, Kevin, but here it says that if a curb is present then it must be 2" above the shower drain grate height. It also stipulates that the top of the curb must be sloped towards the drain.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 04:01 PM   #51
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
The top of the shower curb is actually 2 inches above the top of the drain grate. I stacked three pieces of drywall on top of the drain and put my level on the curb and the drywall. The three drywall pieces are 2 inches total.

I am assuming he is going to slope the tile on top of the shower curb and in the shampoo niches slightly with thinset... I will have to ask him.
__________________
Kevin
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 04:49 PM   #52
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,262
Kevin, it's the waterproof layer on top of the curb that must be sloped to the drain, not just the tile surface.

Y'all got extra fat drywall out there (I'm guessing California since you don't have a location in your User Profile)? Even three layers of 5/8ths" drywall would be a bit short of two inches thick. But you might still be OK as the code requirement is, for reasons I don't understand, measured from the top of the finished curb.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 05:28 PM   #53
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,887
Kevin, most installers will make the perimeter of the shower floor level. That way the bottom row of wall tiles are in a nice level line. If your perimeter is level (which it's probably not) and you have a corner that's too flat, it could be that the mud is too high between the corner and drain. A rub brick could be used to take the mud down in that area. Looking at the mud, it's possible the mud needs a rub brick used on it anyway.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 05:37 PM   #54
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
Thanks Davy. I don't know if this subcontractor has even used a rub brick before. He is an amateur. I think three corners are proper height but the back right corner is too low and needs more mud. The corner slopes at 1/8", not 1/4" like the other three corners, towards the drain. The entire back wall gradually slopes, as it measures 7" in the left corner to the backer board above it and 7.5" in the right corner.
That's why trying to figure out what the best way to tell him how to fill the mortar bed to appropriate pitch. He wants to use the tile thinset but that would require putting it on at around 1/2" thickness or even more.
__________________
Kevin
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2020, 06:33 PM   #55
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,887
Yep, it's clear he's in over his head. I'd watch him as he installs the tiles. Most of us put in many years of being a helper to learn the proper way of doing things. It bothers me that he is learning on your shower and anyone else he tiles for.

Adding mud to a shower floor is never ideal but can be done. It's easier to add a half inch over the whole floor than to taper it from a half inch to nothing. A layer of thinset can be put down and more deck mud added. But getting it from 1/4 inch to nothing may have to be done with a patching material or thinset.

Water easily flows thru deck mud on it's way to the weep holes. It's not the end of the world but it doesn't flow as easy thru added layers of thinset or patching materials.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-18-2020, 12:13 AM   #56
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
I appreciate the advice, Davy. I'm trying to parse your reply and get it straight.

So if the difference in pitch/;evel he's trying to correct is > 1/4", let's say 1/2", it is better to use thin set, then deck mud on top of that? Is it correct to assume he just can't put more deck mud on the dried mortar bed because the new mud won't adhere and the thin set layer in between is so that the new deck mud adheres to the dried mud bed?

And if the difference I'm trying to correct is < 1/4", then just using a thicker layer of thin set directly on the deck mud when applying the floor tile should make do?

Thanks...
__________________
Kevin
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-18-2020, 08:20 AM   #57
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,887
You may have mentioned it but you'll want to use small tiles on the shower floor, usually 4x4 or smaller although I have used 6x6 before. With small tiles, you want the mud floor to already have it's shape so you can trowel thinset down and stick to it.. Trying to butter up mosaics is a nightmare and it'll look like crap. Not only that but the thinset wants to mash up into the grout joints.

Yes, the thinset is a bonder. It bonds the new mud to the old. Just make sure the thinset is wet when you put the mud over it. The mud may need to set and then gently rub it with a rub brick, then vacuum and skim coat the floor with thinset.

Again, this isn't ideal but is about all he can do besides removing the mudbed and starting over. By the time he does all this, he could have replaced the mud.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-18-2020, 09:15 AM   #58
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
Thanks for the clarification.

I was planning on using these tiles for the floor, each square is 6x6", 12x12" per piece. Will these be difficult for him to work with? Also, the slope to the drain is not flat. When I put my 4 foot level from each corner to the corresponding drain corner, it reads 1/4" per foot from three corners and 1/8" per foot from the deficient corner, but the level is not touching at all points along the mud bed. There are small humps, depressions, etc. He also made the immediate mud bed surrounding the drain much more steep in slope so it drops more steeply. Is that normal to do that, or should the mud bed slope pretty much completely uniformly to the drain (ie along a straight line essentially)?

Also, I was going to install 24x48" shower wall tile since the stall is big. My local tile friend says large tile are harder to work with. I think the subcontractor was going to try and install himself without an extra pair of hands...

Unfortunately my GC thinks his tile subcontractor is a "tile master" who he has used since 2014 and refuses to believe that he is not.

The tile subcontractor takes every shortcut he can.

1) Staples into the shower curb and below dam level on the walls
2) Was not going to protect the weep holes and didn't even understand when I told him they needed to be protected. I bought one of those plastic weep hole protectors for him to use, otherwise he was going to just mortar the drain.
3) Hack jobs the mortar bed. No metal lath in the mortar bed
4) Places alkaline tape on the joints without filling the joint with mud/thinset and without putting mud/thinset over the tape after.
5) Uses one coat of redguard on the walls
Attached Images
 
__________________
Kevin

Last edited by californiahomeowner; 10-18-2020 at 10:41 AM.
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-18-2020, 09:38 AM   #59
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin
...or should the mud bed slope pretty much completely uniformly to the drain (ie along a straight line essentially)?
The floor must be flat and appropriately sloped. He's gonna have some difficulty with the tiles you've selected even with a near-perfectly sloped floor.

I do nearly everything myself and I wouldn't consider setting 24"X48" tiles on a wall without some help. Well, actually I'd likely be hard-headed enough to consider it, but I wouldn't actually try to do it and expect good results.

Maybe your guy is just a lot better than I at that sort of thing, but thus far it doesn't appear that's the case.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-18-2020, 11:01 AM   #60
californiahomeowner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 27
I appreciate everyone's advice on this forum. The only DIY stuff I do myself is paint, really. I just wanna know how to get this done correct.

Is it hard to demolish the mud bed so that it can be redone? Will he have to use a demo hammer, etc? Will there be a risk he damages the hot mop liner underneath?
__________________
Kevin
californiahomeowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New construction homeowner with shower floor problems DXB Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 09-02-2020 12:37 AM
Seeking shower pan advice Hephaestus Tile Forum/Advice Board 33 10-10-2017 04:12 PM
Seeking advice for curbless shower on slab. dedvalson Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 05-06-2016 08:04 AM
Weekend warrior seeking Kerdi shower advice ntheath Tile Forum/Advice Board 210 10-30-2014 01:02 PM
New Homeowner - Advice for Cracking/Wet Grout at Corners in Shower Cyclonite Tile Forum/Advice Board 5 07-27-2011 08:03 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC