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Unread 10-07-2020, 07:51 PM   #31
jadnashua
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When nailing up a roof, you cover the nails with the layer above, so there's no path for water unless it backs up, like from an ice dam. There's a product called ice and water shield That might seal around nails, but it's not anywhere near what hot mop is.

Demand another 24-hour flood test of the pan, not a momentary one your guy proposed.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 01:50 AM   #32
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If he were reasonable at all, I would... The 24 hour flood test consists of me blocking the drain and filling the pan myself with water with buckets. He's not going to agree to it himself or have his sub contractor perform it.

When I tell him the result is that the whole thing leaks, the GC will either deny it is leaking saying I made it up to cause him problems or probably accuse me of sabotaging the whole thing. I don't think he even understands or refuses to understand conceptually why the shower pan is supposed to be waterproof. He will say it passed inspection. That is my guess of his reaction. That will leave me with hastened rotting of the shower curb because of the amount of leakage from the 24 hour test. The GC will surely refuse to rebuild from scratch and will say he can only continue forward with the mortar since it passed inspection.

I am just going to document everything with pictures and video and save all my communications with him. They did use roof cement patch to patch around every staple, obviously not perfect but hopefully it slows leakage. I asked a local tile guy who came by and give his opinion how much it would cost for him to mortar the whole shower rather than fiber cement, he said around 8K + materials + demolition + custom shower glass =~ 12K. That's a lot of money for a redo but won't be the end of the world for me in 10+ years. I'm supposedly paying for a remodel that will last longer than this but hopefully the whole thing won't leak fast enough to fail within the next ten to fifteen years... and if it does, I'll go after the contractor in court. It's not the best, but given circumstances I have no better choice.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 06:48 AM   #33
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I think you are forgetting about all the other damage it will cause. Not to mention the health issues from the mold.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 07:26 AM   #34
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Other damage, as in messing up the framing due to wood rotting? I counted the staples. There are around 120 staples or 240 holes, not to mention any staples he may have misfired and subsequently removed...

Yeah it's just the GC I have. Now that he has the city inspector's blessing, the level of resistance to change in plans, even offering to pay the hot mop guy myself to come add another layer of hot mop, is going to be tremendous.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 08:50 AM   #35
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Yes damage to the framing as well as the subfloor and the drywall and framing below(if there is any). I have had some dealings with city inspectors and when we don't agree on something a call to his boss normally solves the problem. Don't let the contract with the GC scare you from putting your foot down when you know something is wrong with the installation process. You may not know everything about this process but you knew enough that you started this thread and everyone here has confirmed your fears. You are paying for a properly built shower, make sure you get one. So far from what you have showed us, you are not getting one
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Unread 10-08-2020, 08:59 AM   #36
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I just called his boss, on your advice and a PM from a building inspector user on this site who saw his thread. His boss is looking into it and fingers crossed. You are right. Thank heavens for the internet and for good samaritan professionals and experts willing to give advice to non-pros like myself...
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Unread 10-08-2020, 11:23 AM   #37
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It is an accepted fact in the industry that the liner is the waterproofing. Even if the hot mop sealed around the holes...what happens down the road when they rust away?

The CA code about no holes in the liner would seem to trump any thought of the liner sealing around them. While the staples may be rust resistant, they are not rustproof.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 01:00 PM   #38
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The supervising inspector told the inspector to issue a correction... We'll see how this GC reacts *shudder*

Update: lol he just sent me an invoice for $6000 in retaliation, although our contract says the next payment is due at inspection passing.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 04:34 PM   #39
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Hell at this rate he will never get that next payment. You are going down a hard road with guy. You are going to have to baby sit the tile guy from here on out, or next we will be talking about coverage, lippage, chipped tile edges, uneven grout lines and washed out grout lines.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 05:30 PM   #40
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Disaster... trying to figure out how to fix this since I know my GC is going to oppose me.

Is it ok to 24 hour test with the lath in place? Obvously let it dry out after.

Also, does anyone know if torching is an acceptable way of sealing the hot mop holes?
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Unread 10-08-2020, 07:09 PM   #41
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Kevin, you'll be better off not touching anything in there before you get the situation straightened out with the contractor. Anything you do will become the reason for any failure that might develop.

You want it flood tested, ask the contractor to do a flood test - for whatever duration suits you. Keep in mind that you may not be able to tell much with a flood test, but that doesn't mean you don't have a problem. And when you do the test, be sure you put some vertically straight-sided container of water next to the shower to act as an evaporation control during the test.

But even if you don't see a substantial change in the shower receptor water level, that doesn't mean moisture has not begun to seep through those fastener penetrations into your structure and that you expect to be using this shower for a minimum of 30 years without any problems at all.

The claim you want to continue to press is that your shower is not being properly constructed and you're paying for one that is.

And yes, from what I know of hot-mop, torching and applying more of the "tar" would likely be an acceptable fix once all the mechanical fasteners have been removed.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-08-2020, 08:20 PM   #42
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Yeah I am just trying to figure out how to proceed. I don't know if the inspectors really care about whether the problem is actually fixed. They changed the pass to fail because I talked to the supervisor and pointed out the code violation.

My GC could pull out the lathe and staples and call inspection and say he fixed the problem, without ever actually sealing the holes. He probably would get away with it. That would be arguably an even worse situation than having the fasteners in place.

So at some point, I need to come up with a plan and take some project risk to get this fixed. I don't trust my GC to do the right thing and actually address my concerns. His subcontractor has been doing this long before I got here, and the GC absolutely thinks I am the problem.
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Unread 10-17-2020, 09:46 AM   #43
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Shower curb height too low? Patching mortar bed slope imperfections?

The staples were removed and new hot mop layer poured to cover the holes. TY to all for advice.

Now, my GC's tile subcontractor poured the mud bed for my shower pan and mud for the shower curb, over hot mop. An outside local tile guy that befriended me came and took a look and said the inner wall curb is too thin to tile correctly. He recommends a single prefabricated quartz piece to go over the entire shower curb. I am hoping for additional opinions on that on this forum. I am trying to understand why he poured the bed mortar so high as the pre-mortar curb should have had sufficient height (two side by side 2x4"s on end - total height 3.5")?. The shower bed is 104"x43".

Also, my local tile friend says he should have used a laser or other professional system to get the slopes correct, which he didn't. He used his eyeball and 2 feet and 4 feet levels. The back right corner/quadrant is not sloped correctly (~1/8" per foot), which the subcontractor says he's going to patch with thicker thinset. I have searched the forum about that topic and seems like there are varying opinions on that...
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Unread 10-17-2020, 10:31 AM   #44
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That's a rough mud job. It should have been mudded with the correct thickness and pitch the first go around.

The quartz curb idea is fine.
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Unread 10-17-2020, 10:43 AM   #45
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Kevin, if your shower floor is 104" long the bed bed had to be very thick at the ends to get enough slope.

The quartz top will be fine, but the tile guy might still be challenged to tile the very skinny side of the curb.
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