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Unread 07-24-2020, 09:15 PM   #1
soflamommy
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Shower pan install by a plumber- am i being overly critical

Hello
I need advice.
I have been browsing you tube and forums in anticipation of doing my 2nd floor diy shower/tub to a shower only renovation. After the demo the covid thing hit and I put everything on pause. Its sat for several months sitting and waiting so I opted to hire a licensed plumber and tiler to complete the reno. The plumber I hired sent someone else who works under him to do the job-install the pan with a pre slope, drain, shower valve. Everything looked good except that he screwed in the corner dam on top of the curb thru the liner. I sent pics to the main plumber telling him the guy was great but I was just concerned if I had to worry about future leaking with the screws thru the liner. He told me they could just place some liner glue on it. So he sent the same guy to fix that area and now there is adhesive everywhere and it isn't even fully adhesived down. Also the corners in the curb are a little lifted and now I'm afraid when they do the mud the weight will stretch or cut the liner. I feel so frustrated. Am I being overly critical? Is this acceptable?
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Unread 07-24-2020, 09:24 PM   #2
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Unread 07-24-2020, 09:51 PM   #3
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Welcome, EM.

I'm mostly surprised that a plumber actually did a pre-slope, but I'd call that liner a do-over.

And I'd be curious to know how you plan for your CBU (I'm guessing) wallboard to fit properly over the folds in the liner since it appears you have steel studs and they almost certainly were not able to notch the bottoms to accommodate the folded liner.

And while you're at it, I'd recommend you have him move the drain to the center of the shower floor. Will make your tiling easier and more attractive.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-24-2020, 09:51 PM   #4
Tool Guy - Kg
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Code says ‘no penetrations below 2” of the finished height of the curb’. The fasteners are violating code. And the patch is sloppy and not continuous. It would receive a failing grade. It’s not acceptable and continuing to butcher it will not make it better. It’s time for an experienced person to install a new one. That does not pass minimal standards.

Although, very unfortunately, Florida is notorious for deficient show pan liners...even more deficient than yours.



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Unread 07-24-2020, 11:02 PM   #5
jadnashua
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It seems that some places in FL don't always require a liner, but that comes no where near close to the industry guidelines!
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Unread 07-25-2020, 05:26 AM   #6
Redlands Okie
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The manufacture has online instructions for their product.

Also wonder if the installer has the weep holes working correctly around the drain. Something to keep a eye on when its replaced.
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Unread 07-26-2020, 06:12 AM   #7
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The thing that always strikes me with these sad stories is that they are so prevalent. Maybe it is one of those things where nobody complains about a job well done, the Squeaky Wheel Effect, etc.

What makes me angry by proxy, however, is that while there is no substitute for experience, even a lowly DIYer such as myself is able to do some digging, find this incredible resource online, and learn how to do things properly. Just bothers me how slack people are. This is either laziness by a "pro" who seems unwilling to either learn how to do things properly, or just does not want to.

This is not limited to this trade by any means. I would wager there are an equal number of HACKS in my trade (software development) as I see in the tile/plumbing trade. It's both sad and infuriating.

I apologize that there is no real advice in this post, just a vent. But yes, even this amateur looked at the first two pictures and said to myself: "no screws in the pan!". Ugh...

OK, so I will offer some actual advice, then: Learn from this site what a proper job looks like, then find a pro and before they even look at the room, make them tell you how a job is done properly. If they cannot, then ask them to leave. On this site, you may be able to find a decent tradesperson of character in your area who can do this job correctly.

You will get a few opinions here on the "best" way (screws in the pan is not one of them, however), but I believe that a liquid-applied waterproof membrane is "superior" to this outdated PVC liner method. Both have pros and cons, but IMO (amateur opinion, admittedly), the paint-on method leaves less room for mistakes, and is an easier install overall, since there are no corners to patch, no studs to notch, etc. Still gotta follow instructions to the letter, however. If you take that path, do NOT skimp on material or steps, including reinforcing fiberglass fabric in the corners, multiple coats of proper thickness, and so on. That membrane needs to be pretty darn thick, but not too thick. The price per gallon will make you do a spit-take, but it is still much cheaper than a do-over.
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Unread 07-26-2020, 07:47 AM   #8
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Shower pan install by a plumber- am i being overly critical

One thing about todays technology, its so EASY to look up the manufactures instructions of just about any product. In fact its often required since the instructions are no longer on the can, box, etc. Sure there are still things that experience helps with, but the basic information is so EASY to obtain. Yet we still have constant issues popping up in life from poor workmanship. As pointed out above, this site is a good example of a great in depth access to experience.
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Unread 07-26-2020, 08:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry
You will get a few opinions here on the "best" way (screws in the pan is not one of them, however), but I believe that a liquid-applied waterproof membrane is "superior" to this outdated PVC liner method. Both have pros and cons, but IMO (amateur opinion, admittedly), the paint-on method leaves less room for mistakes,
I'll hafta be one of the dissenting opinions there, Gerry.

The traditional mud/liner/mud method of creating a shower receptor is rather old, but in no way outdated. It works just as well as it did a hundred years ago when properly executed.

The liquid-applied direct waterproofing membrane methods may seem a lot easier, but that's at least partially because they're seldom done correctly. While painting on such a product is relatively simple, getting two uniform coats of the manufacturer's required thickness is not an easy thing at all and I've rarely seen it done even by the manufacturer's reps at training seminars. Plenty room for error there.

For fool-proof installations, it's still tough to beat a traditional receptor with mud walls. The problem is that the talent pool for such work has diminished to near zero these days. That's about the only real con to such installations.

When you dumb down to CBU walls, the direct bonded waterproofing methods do offer some benefit when building niches and other than "monument" benches. Wall waterproofing is much more forgiving than receptors, though.

While I must agree that there are pros and cons to both methods, I think we tend to be a bit unrealistic about the pros and cons in the more "modern" systems, especially the liquid-applied systems.

As always, of course,

My opinion; worth price charged.
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