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Unread 03-10-2008, 05:52 PM   #1
sjelso
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Mud Float on Green Board?

Hi, looking for some assistance with dealing with the general contractor. We are looking at a bath remodel using marble. We might go with a steam shower.

Here are some Q & As between myself and the contractor. Is a mud float with greenboard a best practice?

A: "We will use greenboard for the water barrier a mud float will b
installed over the greenboard for the leveling of the tile/marble.
Yes the appropriate screws will be used."

-------------------------------------------------------------
>Q: Will use any type of crack isolation product on the floor?

A: "We will be useing a Isolation barrier."

>Q: Will you use a white thinset/for the marble to prevent a darker
color such as grey from bleeding through the marble?

A: "It will be a white thinset.."

> Q: Will you use a concrete backer type product and appropriate
concrete backer board screws in the shower?

A: "We will use greenboard for the water barrier a mud float will b
installed over the greenboard for the leveling of the tile/marble.
Yes the appropriate screws will be used."

> Q: Will you use a wall waterproofing membrane in the shower, like
Kerdi?

A: "refer to answer above."

Q: What type of shower pan/system will you use?

A: "We use OATLEY 8mil shower pan liner "


Q: Can you forward us information on the epoxy gout product you
mentioned. Would this be used only in the shower or for all grouting
applications? Are there various colors available like normal grout
(considering what to use with a Carrera type marble)?

A: "Ive attached a .pdf file of all the grout colors for the Polyblend
Epoxy Grout. This will be used for all applications on tile/marble. 48
colors to chose from.
100% Solids Epoxy Grout
Polyblend Sanded Grout for installations requiring high
resistance to staining or chemical attacks. Workability and fast clean-up
provide easy grout installation for joints 1/8 to 3/8 (3mm to 9 mm) wide.
Protected by MoldGard® Technology to resist mold and mildew growth.
"
IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR PROJECT
FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME..

THANK YOU

BRANDON DAWKINS
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Unread 03-10-2008, 05:58 PM   #2
Rd Tile
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Steam rooms need to be waterproof, none of the above is, I wouldn't use greenboard for any of this, I would just plumb up perfect all the studs, use cemenboard and then go over it with a waterproofing membrane, or if mudding the walls, waterproof the mud before installing your tile.
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Unread 03-10-2008, 07:05 PM   #3
Davy
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I'm trying to figure out where you'll need the appropriate screws when floating the walls. In the lath?

I mud over greenboard all the time, just tack felt paper over it before putting up the lath. In a steam shower, I would leave the felt off, lath and mud it, then go with Kerdi over the mud.
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Unread 03-11-2008, 05:47 PM   #4
sjelso
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1) stud 2) greenboard 3)30lb tar/felt 4)chicken wire..

Hi..got this email below from my contractor for a marble tile shower wall install. Is this "best practice"? Will this be acceptable if we go with a steam shower? Would you want this installed in your home?

Thank you in advance for any guidance.

'--------------------------------------------------------------
(per email fom the contractor)

Materials installed from studs to tile..

1. Green board with proper fasteners. (this is not water proof but is water and moisture resistant.)

2. 30pound tar felt paper.

3. Chicken wire with proper fasteners.

4. Mud float from 1/2" to 1" depending on variations in wall. Installer will determine proper float depth.

5. tile will be installed to the mud float with thin-set.

6. Epoxy grout to be installed.

7. Tile to be sealed.

This is a typical install of your Shower "WALLS"...
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Unread 03-11-2008, 05:58 PM   #5
ddmoit
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That sounds like a proper, old-school mud job to me. Depending on how the pan is constructed, that would be a fine shower. I don't think it's up to snuff for a steam shower though. An application of Kerdi after the mud (as well as a Kerdi drain) would make that a fine steam shower.
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Unread 03-11-2008, 07:20 PM   #6
lou432
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I`ll have to second Dans opinion, add kerdi & its drain & you`d have the PERFECT steam room fer sure!
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Unread 03-11-2008, 07:31 PM   #7
Davy
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Yeah, if you're gonna use Kerdi over the mud, I think you could leave the #30 felt off the greenboard.
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Unread 03-11-2008, 08:25 PM   #8
ceramictec
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how about.....

1) greenboard
2) Kerdi
3) tile installed
4) Epoxy grout
5) seal tile


* you can ask your questions all on the other thread you started about the same thing:
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=60475
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Unread 03-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #9
guitarsman
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I agree with Brian. I just finished a steam shower. only they put up Denshield, then i put up kerdi and marble. Kerdi drain, mud bed with kerdi on top.
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Unread 03-11-2008, 10:11 PM   #10
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Welcome, sjelso. Please put a first name in a permanent signature line for us to use.

Please don't start multiple threads on the same project with the same questions. Causes much confusion and duplication of effort on the part of folks who want to help. Bookmark this one so you can always find it and use it for all your project questions.
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Last edited by cx; 08-11-2008 at 10:29 PM.
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Unread 08-11-2008, 10:25 PM   #11
sjelso
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Vapor Barrier Pipe Penetration (Steam Shower)

I am looking at using a Tu-Tuff poly vapor barrier behind a cement backer and in front of wood studs. My question is, how does one properly seal pipe protrusions (shower head, steam outlet, shower mixer)? This will be in a steam shower.

Can one just tape and use sealant? How about a pipe boot (but might be too big)?

Also, given that the steam pipe will be very hot, again, how does one properly seal around such a hot pipe (afraid will melt barrier and degrade any material used to seal the vapor barrier around it).

Thank you..SJ
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Unread 08-11-2008, 10:38 PM   #12
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Welcome again, Steve. I've combined your earlier threads here. Please see post 10.

Easy answer is that you can't likely construct a proper steam shower using the method you're describing.

You really need to have your waterproofing and your vaporproofing on the inside of those CBU walls.

Easiest way to do that is by using a membrane that is rated as a vapor barrier and seal all your plumbing penetrations on the inside of the walls.

If you use a sheet membrane, there are some pre-formed pieces that will fit some of those pipes and such, and there are proprietary pookies to deal with the rest. The Kerdi shower system is very useful in these applications and the Noble company makes membranes even more vaporproof.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-16-2008, 10:40 AM   #13
sjelso
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Noble TS

Ok..had the contractor and building inspector to talk about the project. I also called Noble and got info on their product. The building inspector knew zero about steam showers. I am frustrated because as the homeowner who is paying for this project I have to do all the research. I also feel exposed if something does happen. The contractor can come back and say "you told us to do it this way"...

Anyway, here we go:

1) 2x4 studs
2) Durock or Denshield (btw - I emailed Denshield tech support..they "approved" this method)
3) Lathe and Mud/Mortat Float
4) Noble TS (0.05 perms..water and vapor barrier)
5) Thinset
6) Marble Tile w/Laticrete Epoxy groute
7) Sealer

The floor/pan will be a "normal" mortar bed with an impervious liner.

One note: The Tile Council warned about leaching of the epoxy grout in a steam shower (didn't provide any specifics). Anyone know what the cause and implications of this might be?

Thanks again for the help.Steve.
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Unread 08-16-2008, 11:21 AM   #14
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WOW !! i like an informed HO. Hammy
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Unread 08-16-2008, 11:37 AM   #15
cx
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You could do all that. If you want to mix Denshield in there as a backer for your mud, though, regular sheetrock would serve just as well, I would think. I'd stick with a CBU if you do that "method," though.

Did you discuss with Noble any special treatment for flexibility in the corners with the NobleSeal?

I'm concerned with your contractor's selection of "...OATLEY 8mil shower pan liner..." I know of no pan liner material that thin. Well, 'cept Kerdi, but that's a different category.

I'd wanna speak directly to the good folks at Laticrete about your grout concerns.

I trust you're doing all the necessary things as concerns movement joints in the backer and mud, insulation, ceiling slope, etc, etc?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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