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Unread 12-01-2009, 12:29 PM   #1
egman2005
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Bathroom Complete Remodel

I am going to be remodeling my main bathroom in my house in jan.

I want to do it right. I have already bought all of the tile, tub, vanity, and toilet.

Now I need to know what else is needed other then the backer board. I am going to be tiling the walls of the shower/ tub.

Should I tear the shower down to the studs completely?

Also can I just do the vapor barrior and then backer board over it?

And what else is needed to make it completly waterproof.
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Unread 12-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #2
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Welcome, Ed.

1. I would.

2. Yes, but it needs be only a moisture barrier, not a vapor barrier.

3. Nothing.

You could also elect to waterproof it with a surface-applied membrane after the CBU is installed. In that case you would eliminate the moisture barrier behind the walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-01-2009, 12:39 PM   #3
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Do i need some kind of tape on the joints of the backer board?

So what is used as the moisture barrier? just a plastic of some kind avail af home depot?

and for the floor tear down should i take it down to the sub floor and use backer board?
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Unread 12-02-2009, 08:16 PM   #4
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up top. should the floor be torn up to the sub floor and backer board be put down.


I attached pics of the tile i will be using in the shower and on the floor.

all of that will be going along with a java vanity.
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Unread 12-02-2009, 08:39 PM   #5
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Moisture barrier behind CBU shower walls can be poly at least 4 mils thick or #15 roofing felt.

You need to find the instructions for your chosen CBU and follow them. If you got none where you bought the CBU, you can find the necessary instructions online in nearly every case.

In general you fill the gaps with thinset mortar and tape them with alkali-resistant mesh tape. Do read the instructions for your material, though.

Can't answer about the floor without a lot more information about what we might be dealing with.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 12-02-2009, 09:03 PM   #6
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flooring is already tiled so in theory i can take up the tile and put new tile over it but i was wondering if it would just be a better idea to just start fresh with new backer board under the tile.

but the shower i will be using hardibacker from the local hd haha.

so in theory take down to the studs, moisture barrier, backer board and the mesh tape? what exactly is said tape called?
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Unread 12-02-2009, 09:57 PM   #7
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Not sure about your HD, but my HD has a whole assortment of stick on mesh tapes in the drywall area. The dark gray stuff is labelled for use with cement boards. I prefer this to the white stuff near the tile backerboard area as it's stickier. Stays in place better when you skim coat the seams.

I typically tack up poly with a hammer tacker and then put up my cbu with screws. I know some guys prefer to use a liquid surface applied membrane like redgard, which is good too. Just make sure you apply it thick enough for it to do its job if you go that route.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 07:06 PM   #8
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Ok. So im looking at starting the demo of everything today.

What is the easiest way to demo the tile off of everything.

On the tile on the lower half of the walls it is Attached over a metal screen and cement. The tile is installed over the cement. Whats the easiest way to go about tearing all of this stuff down to get down to bare studs.

I can go about it with a mini sledge and do it but that is going to take me a vast majority of my weekend. my goal was to at least get the shower done so it can be used. its the only shower in the house.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 08:33 PM   #9
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Its going to be a several days before you can use the shower no matter how quickly you work because some steps require at least a couple fo days for things to cure and harden before they are resady for any kind of use. Plus I bet demo will take at least a day to get everything apart and another 1/2 day just to get it all cleaned up.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 08:55 PM   #10
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Im not worried about that I have a gym membership with a shower there which will finally will get some good use instead of once a week.

I just want to be able to get the rough in done this weekend and maybe just get the tile up. the grout will have to set and be sealed before it can be used.


But for the general idea of what to do once I demo everything

The tub will be taken out and replaced. How do i seal where the backerboard and tub meet? also what is the best vapor barrior and should I use green board everywhere? The only thing tile is the shower surround and floor. everything else will be drywall.

also what should i use where the backer board and drywall meet???? just regular mud and tape?
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Unread 01-01-2010, 12:08 AM   #11
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Ed,

Deep breaths, man. deep breaths...

You have a whirlwind project on your hands. ain't gonna be tiled in one weekend if you're ripping out the walls and tub, replacing them, setting new boards, and tiling.

But one can dream, eh?

I definitely think you will benefit greatly from reading the Shower Construction thread in the whirl'famous Liberry up above. All kinds of your questions and more answered in there.

Get your new plumbing in order, the tub mounted firmly according to the mfr's instructions, and leave yourself some manner of the wall studs ending up plumb, in plane together, and standing proud of the tub's tiling flange.

then decide your waterproofing plan. this is arguably the biggest part of the whole thing. if this is a house you don't particularly plan to live in for a long time, go for plain old poly sheeting on the studs, draped into the tub, and hang Hardie backer on the walls, leaving them 1/4" off the tub deck. Cut the poly after the board is hung, and seal that 1/4" gap w/ 100% silicone.

If you wanna go more robust, we generally recommend surface-applied membranes, either sheet or liquid form, to avoid saturating your boards w/ water. Everything in tile work fails miserably at being waterproof - except a waterproofing membrane. tiles, thinset, grout - all not waterproof. So pick what you want. Kerdi sheet membranes can actually be applied over plain old sheetrock.

The joint from wallboard to tub is generally constructed the same way, no matter what - leave a gap, use 100% silicone, and then when you tile, leave the bottom tile edge a little closer, and silicone again. Kerdi is a little more involved - you'd do well to download the Kerdi Handbook, buy John's Kerdi E-book, watch the videos, etc.

No greenboard anywhere in the room - serves no purpose, and is no longer code-compliant in many situations. Save yourself the unnecessary expense and go w/ plain old sheetrock in there, everywhere.

If you go w/ Hardie or a CBU, you can use plain old drywall mud & tape outside the wet area. Use thinset and alkali-resistant mesh tape in the wet areas.

Oh and just to say it out loud - no premixed anythings. mix your own thinset and grout and you'll be much happier

Hope this helps! enjoy your project!
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Unread 01-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #12
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Oh i know its no weekend project. My goal this weekend is to get the shower walls demo'd and the old tub out.

then have the new tub in and all plumbed. I can work on the bathroom after work all week for a few hours and get it done whenever. i have a half bath in the basement. to get the necessities done. and a gym membership for the daily free shower.

I was just unsure as to how to get the gap between the backer board and the tub it self.

thanks for clearing it up.

Also im still unsure as to why the tile is secured to concrete then applied with thinset. just a little puzzled.

also the house has sheetrock and plaster on the walls. Even my contractor neighbor is puzzled by this. it was built in the 50s and im pretty sure the bathroom is original.
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Unread 01-01-2010, 11:13 AM   #13
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the concrete application on the walls sounds like a pretty typical old-school mud job. From the days before CBU's strong dang stuff eh? Lotsa discussion hereabouts on demo'ing that old stuff - mostly involving power tools, like a cheap chipping hammer, either electric or pneumatic. Got a Harbor Freight store nearby?
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Unread 01-01-2010, 11:39 AM   #14
egman2005
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I wish. closest one is about an hour.

Guess its old school way for me. good old sledge hammer and bruit force.

I got a little progress done on the demo so far. todays goal is just getting all the demo done for the shower. So my gf's dad can help me do the plumbing tomorrow.

I think thats a reasonabe goal. going to break out the sledge hammer to do all that.

only real power tools i have are the hammer drill, recip saw, cordless circ saw, and tile saw. i thought about just using the old 7 1/4 circ saw and the cement blade to cut through the wall in sections and just pull it down but thats not going so well. the blades are getting tore up. they arent that expensive but at this rate im going to need 3 to get through one side of the section.
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Unread 01-01-2010, 04:56 PM   #15
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Ed,

I recently tore out a shower that had a total of 2 inches of mud, lath and tile. Tried the hammer and chisel and thought the adjoining walls were going to come down. Tried a circular saw - never seen so much dust in my life. At the suggestion of someone here on the forum I went to HD and rented a chipping hammer. That thing made short work of those shower walls.

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