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Unread 07-15-2007, 05:20 AM   #31
sinkholed
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Hey Jim, thanks ALOT, not only for your pearls of wisdom with this, but especially for your commitment to this board in general.

You're but one of the pros that so-called DIY'ers encounter everywhere they go on this board.

This place is a DIY'ers paradise: it's sometimes difficult to get a professional tradesman to call you back, let alone show up offering references that make you feel comfortable hiring them.

I'd wager many people turn to this board not because they want to DIY their project, but simply because they want to know the right way something should be done; because they want to know the person they've hired is going to do the job right.

Thanks!

--Bob
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Unread 07-15-2007, 09:10 AM   #32
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Yep, Jim is very good help hereabouts, Bob, and we do appreciate his participation.

When you're starting with half-inch plywood on a subfloor (which should carry the death penalty for the original builder), I agree that gluing is necessary to get any real benefit from that first layer. But the first layer must be in very good condition for even that to do any real good.

Be sure you do the gluing with a full spread of wood glue, though, and not a gunned-on construction adhesive. It's also very important that you pre-drill the second layer to prevent "jacking" when you screw them together.

Another very good way to achieve un-coupling is to use a membrane such as Ditra in lieu of the CBU for your tiling substrate. The useful movement accommodation occurs right in the profile of the membrane itself.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-19-2007, 07:28 PM   #33
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So close I can smell it...

... and the smell is FEAR ... raw, life & death, animal FEAR!

Plumber/tiler is in Florida, returning 7/23, and scheduled to tile floors/tub-walls starting 7/28. Wife's party is 8/4 and she wants this bathroom.

Subfloor's ready, & stud walls shimmed to go, but during a late-stage dryfit we notice a problem ...
[image]http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31342&stc=1[/image]

I'm assuming this should be a minor fix (hour or two tops) for the plumber/tiler? Couple of cuts/solders on each supply & he can move the whole thing 1 3/8" to the right?

[image]http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31344&stc=1[/image]

Next issue... as per recommendations from here, I'm setting this Sterling Vikrell tub in a mortar base, to provide that solid feel. How soon can I safely stand in the tub after it's installed? I'm gonna need to stand in it so I can install the Durock backer the plumber/tiler's gonna need to set his tile.

'nother issue... I was gonna set tub on the subfloor, and then Durock up to it. Then the tile would tile up to the tub as well. But look at this...
[image]http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31345&stc=1[/image]

If I add the 5/16" Durock + thinset + 1/4" tile on top of the subfloor, I'm going to be ABOVE that fancy-schmancy curvy design mold at the bottom of the apron. Guess it would too much to think I want the tile guy to handle cutting tiles to tile upto this tub; meaning, I guess I should just lay down another 1/2" of ply UNDER THE TUB ONLY, so there is a straight line he can tile into?

Last issue for now... this 3-wall alcoved tub will be tiled about 18" short of ceiling. I'm presuming I can't Durock all the way up to the ceiling & just paint over that last untiled 18" of Durock? Or can I?

When I asked before about the horizontal transition from Durock to DensArmorPlus (as I move outside of the tub area) I was told I should seam the Durock to the DensArmor under the last row of tiles. I guess, if I can't paint the Durock above the tile, I can transition the same. But what type of primer or sealer would you use on those last 18" of vertical wall above the tile? I'm nervous about not having tile all the way up, but it's the wife's house, I just live here, so that's that. She wants to use a satin finish for the final topcoat color.

Thanks again as always.

--Bob
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Unread 07-20-2007, 12:44 AM   #34
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I'm nervous about not having tile all the way up, but it's the wife's house, I just live here, so that's that. She wants to use a satin finish for the final topcoat color.
There's no problem or need to be nervous about stopping the tile short of the ceiling. Its done all the time (and can look very nice!!). Also can make the install a little easier stopping short on a full tile, than trying to get a nice fit to the ceilng which can require extra cuts

Also, have had good results with satin finishes in bathrooms. Some folks swear by semi-gloss in the bathrooms, but ive had no issues with satins (and lots of folks prefer the look).

I went and read through Georgia Pacifics install and finishing guide for DensArmor here http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=4659 :

"For best results when painting DensArmor®/DensArmor PlusTM , G-P Gypsum requires the use of a high quality, high build drywall primer/surfacer. Follow the application instructions of the primer manufacturer stated on the container."

Personally, I'd use something like Kilz Premium latex.
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Last edited by Deckert; 07-20-2007 at 12:52 AM.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 12:56 AM   #35
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The majority of bath/showers don't go to the ceiling anyway.I would say most are around 7'.It seems to be a trend to top them out these days.Most want it to the top and ceiling.It's your call.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 01:06 AM   #36
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Quote:
The ceiling has an existing light/heat/exhaust fixture in it. It's not vented outside, just into attic. I understand I could use standard flexible dryer vent coil to exhaust outside, but not sure if I have time or inclination to do that now.
That is something that DEFINITELY needs corrected. It is not code and even more importantly the reason its not code is its venting moist air up into your attic. Will cause condensation, rot, and mold. It's an easy fix. Either vent it through the wall with about $20.00 in parts or you can vent it through the roof with a bit more money and work.

I didn't read through this entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned this. With all the other work your doing its easy to overlook or forget about it but its could really cause major problems down the road if you dont take care of it.
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Unread 07-20-2007, 03:40 AM   #37
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Kilz it is. Thanks.

As for the exhaust, I haven't forgotten. Gonna try & get a local roofer to install today, or else it'll have to wait until the bathroom next door gets redone -- next year's "vacation".

So I'm assuming I won't be painting over the Durock? I will have to seam it to the DensArmor above the tile?

What about the extra 1/2 of ply under the tub? (some more pix att'd)

Assuming I'm right in doing that, should I end the ply flush to the bottom of the apron, or should I recess it an 1/8"?

--Bob

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Unread 07-20-2007, 10:06 AM   #38
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No, you won't be painting the Durock. Have the Durock/Dens seam land so its underneath/behind your top row of tile.
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Unread 07-26-2007, 07:03 AM   #39
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Tub is installed; Time's Running Out!

I'm fighting the urge to post this as a separate "HELP ASAP!" thread, and instead staying "on thread" as suggested.

Is the choice between "my" way (28-7/8" of tile) and "his" way (33") of tile purely an aesthetic one? Or is one going to offer superior performance -- a longer lasting seam? a more water-resistant barrier? etc?


Tub is installed. DensArmorPlus is in except where it needs to transition into Durock in the tub area. 3 pix attached hopefully show you enough to help you help me!

The flanges on the end walls of tub measure 29", which as the picture shows, pretty much aligns with the "real" apron edge (for measuring purposes I'm not counting that extra inch or so of bumpout next to the flange). So I figure using SEVEN 4" tiles, from the inside corner, along this flange, gives me 28". Add in SEVEN 1/8" grouts and I'm at 28 7/8".

So I will plan for tile to end at 28 7/8", and I will set my Durock-to-DensArmor transition seam at 26-7/8", making the seam smack dab in the middle of the last 4" tile.

Hopefully that seems OK for everything above the tub. Below the tub -- actually down the outside apron -- I now will have to marry the apron edge to the DensArmor. I presume I will do this with a silicone caulk?

The tiler had suggested adding an 8th 4" tile (for 33" total) so that there would tile outside the tub and down this apron-to-wall joint.

Is the choice between "my" way (28-7/8" of tile) and "his" way (33") of tile purely an aesthetic one? Or is one going to offer superior performance -- a longer lasting seam? a more water-resistant barrier? etc?

Thanks!

--Bob
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Last edited by sinkholed; 07-26-2007 at 09:16 AM. Reason: "Cut to the chase": HIGHLIGHTED MY ASAP!!!!
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Unread 07-27-2007, 08:01 PM   #40
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Look at my window .. NOW What?

Tiler arrives in 14 hours -- 2pm Sat 7/27 -- which, if you've been following my bathroom rebuild, is exactly 1 week before 65 party guests expecting their host to have a functioning bathroom. Pardon me going off "my" thread, but I need the best you guys have to offer, as soon as possible.

Job #1 is how to finish the dreaded window in the bathtub. What do I do before he arrives ... what does he do when he arrives. Hope the pictures help
  • Vinyl replacement window.
  • 6 mil poly behind 3 walled alcove.
  • Durock 3/4 way up the walls; Dens Armor Plus on the top 1/4.
  • Notice they've been transitioned by sheetrock guy, but that edges at corners are rough and need finishing.
  • Notice I've cut poly at corners.
  • Notice I've siliconed vinyl to wood seams.

Know that I need to go to bed now. I hope someone prays for me, takes pity on me, and takes the time to tell me EXACTLY what I need to do next with what I've got.

No redgard ... not enough time.
Laticrete? ... MAYBE? ... if it sets up so that the tiler gets to start tiling when he shows up.

I've read lots of what I should do, but I'm working with a gun to my head here. Tell me ... PLEASE ... what's the best next steps given the circumstances.

Thanks

--Bob
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Unread 07-27-2007, 08:46 PM   #41
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I think you should always tile a leg down to the floor outside the tub. I would least want to run my CBU out that far, even if you elect not to tile there. It's a wet area. It's one of the first places you see sheetrock failure in the cheap tile-over-greenrock installations.

[Later]

And now I've merged your new thread here, Bob. If you think you're not getting a sufficiently prompt response, please just make another post and bump your thread to the top of the queue. Starting a new thread for "emergencies" just makes folks hafta go search out your other thread for information, anyway. Just keep it together and we'll try to help.

You need to wrap that wood window framing with more of your CBU. Caulking the window to the wood framing with silicone is not effective, by the way. Silicone will stick to the vinyl OK, but not to the wood.

Then you'll need to waterproof the whole window area with something like RedGard or Laticrete 9235 or some other paint-on product. You may hafta caulk between that and the window, too.

Then tile.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-28-2007, 05:45 AM   #42
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Exclamation Six Hours To Tile Guy...need To Paint First...aarrgghh!!!!

Quote:
I've merged your new thread here, Bob. If you think you're not getting a sufficiently prompt response, please just make another post and bump your thread to the top of the queue.
Aye aye, cap'n. Might'n y'rename me thread to something more urgent like, so's to more likely interest seafairin' cap'ns like yerself in helping a landlubber like me'self navigate the treacherous waters I be adrift in?
Perhaps something like this? ... "HELP!!!...Drowning in a Deadlined Rebuild of a Small 35-yr-old Bathroom!" ... tho' I be leavin' it up to yer discretion.

Quote:
Starting a new thread for "emergencies" just makes folks hafta go search out your other thread for information, anyway.
I shoulda at least provided a link back to the original thread. Forgive me.

Quote:
...Just keep it together and we'll try to help.
At this late stage it's doubtful I can keep it together. I'm falling apart and I'm just hoping my bathroom won't

Quote:
I think you should always tile a leg down to the floor outside the tub. I would least want to run my CBU out that far, even if you elect not to tile there. It's a wet area. It's one of the first places you see sheetrock failure in the cheap tile-over-greenrock installations.
Such is the spilled milk I get to cry over. Maybe some bumps on my main thread that asked about this wouldv'e gotten this response in time. Tile guy wanted another row of tile but the wife didn't. Too late now. [He also wanted to use mastic for the walls, until I dissuaded him from that.]

Two more pix att'd so hopefully I can learn what to do now with where I am right now. Can I add another row now that the Durock-to-DensArmorPlus seam is already in place? Can I add it JUST from the tubline on down to the floor? If so, what surface prep should I do to what I have now? What bonding agent should be used for it?

Quote:
You need to wrap that wood window framing with more of your CBU.
I didn't want to install the "inside" (the wood window framing) until I knew what, if anything, I should place between the wood and the CBU. Should I staple down the existing poly, silicone it, add new poly, silicone some more?

Also have that issue of the transition seam on the inside. Should I add & seam both materials on the inside, or just do the whole thing in CBU? I still have to finish the juncture between the inside and the walls. I was expecting the tile guy to do that with fiberglas alkali resistant mesh tape.

Quote:
Caulking the window to the wood framing with silicone is not effective, by the way. Silicone will stick to the vinyl OK, but not to the wood.
It's ok to be there though, right? It can stay in place & we just layer whatever else on top it, and keep siliconing whereever it's needed as we do?
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Unread 07-28-2007, 08:02 AM   #43
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4 Hours To Tile Guy ...

bump
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Unread 07-28-2007, 08:29 AM   #44
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You don't likely have time to do the window correctly if you're gonna let somebody tile it four hours from now. You can install the CBU around the window opening if you have some on hand. You can cover the area with RedGard or similar if you have some on hand. And maybe it'll all be dry by the time the tile man gets to that part. Or not.

But if you want that shower to hold up, you need to do it correctly. If that means re-scheduling the tile work, so be it.

I don't see any added photos, by the way.

And now I gotta go to work. Good luck.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-28-2007, 10:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
You don't likely have time to do the window correctly if you're gonna let somebody tile it four hours from now. You can install the CBU around the window opening if you have some on hand. You can cover the area with RedGard or similar if you have some on hand. And maybe it'll all be dry by the time the tile man gets to that part. Or not.
After putting together a rush waterproofing job using poly & WAY Too much silicone -- all so I could be ready for the tiler at 2pm -- he ended up skunking me. Sounds like he had a more pressure issue with his wife's health, so I can't really blame him, but now I'm stuck with what I whipped up (not pretty!) rather than what I could have done using Redgard or HydroBan and the like.

Quote:
But if you want that shower to hold up, you need to do it correctly. If that means re-scheduling the tile work, so be it.
Hopefully I've reached the perfect compromise to delay the tub tiling until I can get it done right with thinset. Thanks to Marge for the suggestion to just delay the tub tiling but finish all the rest. Hope it satisifies the DW.

Quote:
I don't see any added photos, by the way.
Here they are, and they're not pretty. A couple showing the tub/floor/wall seam. Then more showing my progress (or regress) tackling the window. Way too much silicone, but I hope I can exacto-knife off the excess. Wanted quickest/bestest waterproof in the limited time I had, and I went a bit overboard with the caulk.

Besides the existing poly that was there when I cut out the frame of the window from the full poly'd wall, I added a second layer of poly on top of the first poly. Then I siliconed (GE II). Then I predrilled CBU to attach screws into CBU sill. Ditto the sides and top, except I transitioned from CBU to drywall near the window top. That, too, was probably a mistake. As you can see the spackler guy spackled the horizontal wall seam between the 2 sheets of Durock (just below the window), and so I probably should have just CBU'd both sides of window all the way from bottom to top. Then I could have added joint compound over the CBU to provide a surface for the part that would be painted drywall.

I'm getting loopy; hope that made sense. In any event, blast away. Hopefully I've removed the tub tiling from the deadline schedule, so I'll have time to fix anything you see that won't work.
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