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Unread 03-02-2020, 12:29 PM   #91
TipsyMcStagger
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Understood. Thanks very much.
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Unread 03-11-2020, 01:48 PM   #92
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The inspector was here this morning and passed the rough-in, including the in-wall toilet carrier.

I didn't want to open a can of worms but I asked him about the flood test requirements. At first, he was insistent that a vinyl pan with a weeping system was required. I explained how the Quickdrain was designed to be used with a topical waterproofing system. I told him we would have a mudbed completely coated with Regard, including the drain flange, then thinset and tile. And that any water that made its way through the tile and thinset would still be directed into the drain on top of the Redgard.

After much conversation, he acquiesced and said the planned installation will be acceptable as long as there is 2" of water for the flood test. I assumed he meant 2" at the deepest point but I wanted to find the exact verbiage, so I searched the Florida building code. The code describes the typical liner requirements with the following as a listed exception:

"Shower compartments where the finished shower drain is depressed a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) below the surrounding finished floor on the first floor level and the shower recess is poured integrally with the adjoining floor."

The is the section of the code that applies to this installation. But after thinking about this a bit more, I realized that in order for the "finished shower
drain" to be "a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) below the surrounding finished floor," the pitch to the drain will have to be greater than the standard 1/4" per foot.

The shower will be approximate 5.5' deep from the threshold to the back wall. So, to lose two inches over 5.5' (give or take), the slope will be a little bit greater than 1/4" per foot.

At what point does the pitch become excessive from a comfort standpoint? In other words, you're standing on a sloped shower floor, I'd assume an excessively pitched shower floor would feel awkward.

I'm sure the answer to that question is subjective but my quick math shows that for the drain to be 2" lower than the finished floor, with a shower depth of 5.5', the pitch would have to be .363" per foot.

Thanks.
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Unread 03-11-2020, 08:01 PM   #93
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Some people using pebble floors strive for 1/2" per foot to ensure proper drainage oner the irregular surface.
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Unread 03-12-2020, 05:48 AM   #94
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Good to know. Thanks.
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Unread 03-14-2020, 12:36 PM   #95
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You opened a can of worms with the inspector and you may not get what you want anymore.

1/2 inch per foot is the maximum slope, according to code, for a shower. So, if they are insistent, you'll have to put a curb in your shower.

The best thing that you can do at this point is to download the exact instructions that you will use and take them to city hall and get written approval before starting your shower. Otherwise, your gambling. Then build it according to instructions.

For what it's worth, I would try to get your installers to use the urethane version of redgard rather than the water-based. At least for the pan. But the water-based is approved for that use so it's up to you.
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Unread 03-17-2020, 09:30 AM   #96
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Thanks Jim. I calculate the slope will be greater than 1/4" per foot but less than 1/2" per foot.

In what regard will that be a code issue?
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Unread 03-23-2020, 08:21 AM   #97
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Well, the idea of Redgard as the sole means of waterproofing just wasn't sitting well with me. I'm sure if it's applied properly, it'd be just fine. But I feel like there are better products available for this particular installation.

I'm not a huge fan of asking trades people to use methods or materials that they are otherwise unfamiliar with but in this case, I've asked them to waterproof the shower with Ardex 8 + 9. I like that it cures chemically vs. Redgard, which relies on air to cure.

Redgard might be a perfectly adequate system to use, but I'll sleep better with the Ardex. Surprisingly, I was able to find 8 + 9 locally.
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Unread 03-27-2020, 07:51 AM   #98
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The project has come to a standstill. The tile setter was supposed to be here a 8am yesterday and was a no-show. I got a call around noon from the GC with "bad news." The tile setter had completed his previous job Wed night and decided he was no longer comfortable working until the pandemic situation changes.

So, there's nothing I can do but wait.

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Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 03-27-2020 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Unread 05-14-2020, 08:29 AM   #99
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Six plus weeks later, there is progress! Not the best picture but I almost shed a tear to finally see the linear drain set and the deck mud sloped. The top of the drain is just a bit more than the required 2" below the floor. The shower will be five and a half feet deep.

This was done yesterday. They are going to give it the weekend to set before applying the Ardex 8 + 9.



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Unread 05-15-2020, 11:30 AM   #100
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Question:

The Showerline drain has a factory applied tape over the entire top surface. The installation method calls for applying the liquid waterproofing membrane over the entire surface of the drain. This is a good thing, because we are required to have a flood test and we won't have to rely on a drain plug to hold back the water.

My GC applied Ardex 8 + 9 to the walls several weeks ago. I see that it dries very hard. Much harder than RedGard. My tile setter has never used Ardex 8 + 9. He is concerned that it will be difficult to cut through the Ardex after the tile is set and grouted. He's also concerned that the thickness of the Ardex will make it difficult to find the locating pins that are used to position the clamping collar.

Do any of you have experience cutting through Ardex 8 + 9 in similar drain installations? Any tips, tricks or concerns?

Thanks!
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Unread 05-16-2020, 11:33 AM   #101
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Brad, have you got a link to the exact drain you are using?
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Unread 05-16-2020, 08:11 PM   #102
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Davy, it's the Quickdrain Showerline by Oatey, model PVC4856D20.
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Unread 05-21-2020, 06:45 AM   #103
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Just wanted to revisit the Daltile 4x16 subway tile, if anyone cares. The GC made the initial order from the wholesaler (ProSource). I honestly have no idea what price he pays but the price marked in the showroom is $7.34 sq ft. This is sold as Daltile Colorwheel Linear. The Home Depot product is Daltile Restore at $2.33 sq ft.

I made a last minute decision to tile the remainder of the wall that was initially going to remain untiled. The GC called Prosource to get more subway tile but they said they'd have to search the entire country to find more from the same lot. In the end, I decided to just buy more from HD.

I have looked at these tile in direct sunlight, in artificial light, from multiple angles, etc. etc. They are indistinguishable. The tile setter initially balked thinking they would not be the same tile but after inspecting them himself, he feels they are exactly the same. The size of the tile and even the shade of white have no perceptible variations, despite coming from different lots and different distributors.

Below are pictures of the back of the "Colorwheel Linear" tile from Prosource and the "Restore" tile from HD. They are identical in every way except for the digits on the bottom circled in red.

The box labels show the same "55501" Shade code and the shape is "4161P2" vs. "416HD1P2", with the "HD" (obviously, "Home Depot") being the only difference.

Personally, I think they are the same exact tile packaged in different boxes. In post #33 Tiger Mountain Tile Inc wrote, "they are not the same quality as tile purchased directly through Daltile. The tile that is made for Home Depot is manufactured at its own facility and the quality controls are different."

I suppose it is possible there is a difference in the chemical makeup of the mix used to create these tile but it surely seems they are identical.


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Unread 05-21-2020, 09:25 AM   #104
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I think what Jim stated is true to some extent. Daltile may have a factory that makes tile primarily for Home Depot but that doesn't mean that they don't sell tiles made from other factories.

I've bought tile from Home Depot that were lower grade or maybe seconds but that doesn't mean everything sold there is seconds. Heck, I've been sold seconds from Dal tile too that I had to return.
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Unread 05-21-2020, 11:30 AM   #105
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Davy, I'm certainly no expert about the information on the box labels but I noticed on both labels, just below "55501" it says "Qual/Cal: STD"

I'm guessing that could mean Quality/Caliber: Standard? Or maybe something similar?

They also both say "Loc: 200" which I'm guessing could be a code signifying the plant at which they were manufactured?

At any rate, I just thought I'd share my observations about this particular tile.

Flood inspection passed yesterday and the niche is being framed right now.
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