Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 02-12-2020, 07:56 AM   #1
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Uneven grout line above niche

Hello - We have had a nightmare bathroom remodel. We had to have our entire shower re-done because our first contractor did not pitch the floor correctly along with various other plumbing issues. Our new contractor who has years of tile experience has not done the greatest job tiling our shower in my opinion. Before I pay him in full, I would like some tile experts opinions. This is hard to see in photos, but the grout line about the niche is uneven and much thicker than the grout line throughout the shower. It is uneven by 1/4" from the middle to the far right. When I told my contractor I was unhappy with this, and that I had viewed other friend's showers he had done and they were perfect he shrugged his shoulders and said, "That's the just the way it was laid out. That stuff happens." He has offered a few solutions, but none of them make sense to me and I'm not sure they would look any better. You can also see in one of the photos where there is exposed dark grout behind the hex tiles in the far right - that bothers me too.
There are also at least 5-6 subway tiles that aren't flush and are sticking out - Once again very hard to see in photos, but in person you can notice it and cleaning it I will notice it. Shouldn't all the tiles be flush? My contractor said that "That just happens."
Please advise me if you think this is sloppy work, and if you think it can be corrected without ripping off the entire top half. Or would you just ask for a certain amount of money to be deducted from the bill? My contractor is offering to somehow take out the top subway tiles above the niche and re-work them so there is less grout showing and it's more even - but he said it won't be perfect. Please advise
Attached Images
    
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 02-12-2020, 08:23 AM   #2
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 982
that joint should be caulked. You CAN grout it, but it is prone to crack since it is a change of plane. Since you have that unevenness, I would use a 100% silicone caulk and tool it appropriately to conceal the unevenness. It would totally hide that.

With respect to the popped out tile, it does happen, but it doesn't have to. With some more skill, patience, and care it can be totally eliminated/avoided. The only solution now it to break the tile off and re-set another one in place. Not that difficult, but it is a pain to do. How many of them do you have?? It would not be unreasonable to ask the guy to break and re-set OR just ask for a cost reduction to live with it.

As to the wider joint, he could probably break off the entire top ledge "ceiling" and re-set them closer to the tiles above it. This would be determined by the tile thickness though and may be impossible. You might also end up seeing the sides of the tile. This could be avoided using some kind of edging profile. But hard to say without looking at the tiles's sides and how the wall corned was formed.

Keep in mind your quest for perfection may be out of this guy's skill set. Ripping off a bunch of random tiles and re setting here and there might end up looking worse.... This is just my opinion as a hobbyist tile setter.
__________________
Mike

Last edited by speed51133; 02-12-2020 at 08:30 AM.
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-12-2020, 06:23 PM   #3
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 32,102
The layout doesn't "just happen". You have to plan ahead for things to lay out a certain way. To me, the worse part is the upper right corner of the niche. This is from him not building the niche straight and level or maybe from setting the tiles crooked.

Tiles that are bulged out are usually from a bulge in the substrate behind the tiles. The tiles follow any imperfections in the substrate so he should make sure the walls are flat before setting any tiles. I agree with Mike, a nicer job is probably beyond his skill set.

Makes me wonder what kind of waterproofing he has behind the tiles.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-12-2020, 07:01 PM   #4
Ryan349
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 12
Those tiles, laid in that pattern, are going to be difficult to get “lippage free” (at least I have a hard time). Most times the box the tile comes with will come with a recommended layout pattern, and I’m curious if the box recommended this.

You can see in the niche, the top tile (that’s laid flat against the “ceiling” of the niche”) goes from a small grout line on the left to a thicker grout line on the right...I’m assuming they were trying to hide the grout difference in the accent tile.

I’m curious to know what’s behind those tiles, but no matter what it is I still wouldn’t recommend taking the problem tiles down to correct them. It’s not one tile that’s bad it’s the tiles next to it also. At this point I’d leave it alone unless you want to have it torn down and replaced.
__________________
Ryan
Ryan349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 07:32 AM   #5
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Hello Guys -

Thank you for your input. I do have additional photos to share. He unfortunately did no waterproofing on the backer board, nor did he tape the seams. I am including photos of the night before he put the tile up and you can see there is no waterproofing.He also only put the rubber lining up three incehs and nailed it as you can see in the photo. He did the niche first with the hex tile, then the subway the next day. He had the subway tile done in less than a day. You can also see the niche shelf looked good in the photo before he grouted it.
After much grumbling and not admitting any fault, he tore out the top of the niche shelf and repositioned some stuff and will be grouting it today. This is a guy that is in demand in our area and highly recommended. How can this be?
Also, in regards to the 6-7 subway tiles that aren't flush, his comment was, "That happens." Any advice before I pay him the remainder of his money?
Attached Images
   
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 07:40 AM   #6
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Hello Again -
This is unrelated to tile, but thought I would reach out for input anyways. We had our vanity top installed yesterday along with the faucets. The water from the faucets falls about an inch from the back of the sink - making it extremely difficult to wash my hands without banging them up. Would it have been possible for the hole to be cut closer to the sink? I'm including a photo of the faucet and then underneath the sink - it's the faucet hole is about 1/4-1/2" away from the edge of the sink. It was my contractor that ordered the quartz and took care of all of that, so I'm wondering if it was unavoidable or if I just have to suck it up and live with it.
Thanks in advance.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Denise
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 08:00 AM   #7
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 982
Denise, what brand and model is that faucet? Looking at the picture from under the cabinet, it is hard to fault the granite/installer much. The hole could have been maybe 1/4in closer, but that's about it.

I would recommend a different faucet. If you tell me the make and model I can look up the schematics to see just how far the reach is on that spout. I can also recommend a different faucet with similar style with a longer reach.

Faucets are not at all standard, but typically the placement on the sink is.

With respect to the waterproofing, the good news is that your boards look like Denseshield. https://www.buildgp.com/densshield/resources/532245.pdf
Denseshild has a waterproof face on it. If you look at that link and just scroll down to page 6, you can see that you still have to apply mesh tape and mortar the joints. Not only that, but you have to caulk the seams FIRST to maintain the waterproof face.

Looking really close I can see silicone in some of the seams. I also see the tube hanging there. I imagine he was just not done filling them with silicone. This is good and ensures waterproofing. On that note, looks like the niche had the board backwards. The gray side should be facing towards the wet surface. The brownish yellowish side of denseshield is NOT waterproof. It really isn't much better that drywall. Not sure if that means ripping out the niche is in order. Wait for a pro to comment on it.

The lack of mesh tape does not affect the waterproofing, but it does make it more likely that the tiles can crack along the seams. It is not a guarantee of failure, just makes it more likely and is contrary to the instructions.

Often times tradesman that are busy and highly recommended are simply that because of what the finished product LOOKS like. Few people know what to look for in the construction phase. The exact same is true with home builders that crank out the McMansions by the subdivision.
__________________
Mike

Last edited by speed51133; 02-14-2020 at 08:12 AM.
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 08:16 AM   #8
jerrymlr1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 1,154
No waterproofing whatsoever? The recommended tile guy that you have knows little about shower construction. In my opinion the shower needs to be ripped out and done over by someone who knows what he's doing.
__________________
Jerry
jerrymlr1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 08:19 AM   #9
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Hello Mike -

I now realize what you are saying is true and feel like I really know what to ask and look for before I hire my next contractor!

The faucet is a Kohler Honesty. I would greatly appreciate any input you may have. I will see if this faucet can be exchanged if you have other options you think may work better.

Do you have any idea why he may have turned the gray board to the other side? I wondered about that as well. Would it be possible he could of taped before he put the tile in? I never went in at all the morning he started putting subway up.

At this point, if he fixes the top of the shelf so it looks halfway decent should I pay him in full and get him out the door?

Thank you!
__________________
Denise
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 08:38 AM   #10
jerrymlr1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 1,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
The lack of mesh tape does not affect the waterproofing, but it does make it more likely that the tiles can crack along the seams. It is not a guarantee of failure, just makes it more likely
I disagree with that Mike. Even if the corners were siliconed they will eventally break away and leak. Especially in the niche. The back side of the niche could even leak to the outside of the liner so water could and probably would migrate out of the shower. The corners and seams need to be taped and embedded in thinset. The backwards installation in the niche is a good sign of the installer's lack of basic knowledge IMO.
__________________
Jerry
jerrymlr1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 08:57 AM   #11
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 982
I would ask the guy "did you apply anything at the seams of the tile board?". If he says yes ask what. If he only says silicone then ask if ANYTHING else. If he says no, THEN bring up the mesh tape and how the board manufacturer requires it. I don't think it is a tear out situation, but I would ask for an extend warranty (which may be useless).

I have no idea why he turned those boards in the niche backwards. I would ask him.

As to your faucet, take a look below. I have the spec sheet for yours and another by Kohler. This gives you about two inches extra. I couldnt find an exact match style though.

edit: I would trust what others say about longevity of the installation with lack of mesh. I have NOT ever done it and am only a hobbyist. I don't have the field experience to know what happens in the long run.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Mike
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 09:09 AM   #12
jerrymlr1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 1,154
Even when I was doing showers I wasn't a fan of Denshield. I don't like the silicone in the corners. I prefer the kerdi way of thinset used in conjuction with their materials. Thing is that without the mesh and thinset the grout is guaranteed to crack. At the corners and probably where the sheets meet in the field over time. Then there's the niche. Ask the installer about the preparation and go from there.
__________________
Jerry
jerrymlr1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 09:30 AM   #13
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
The Denshield in the niche area that is yellow and facing the wrong direction is backed up to our closet - when he was removing the tiles he actually ripped it all out and there was a hole in our closet. I am very curious now as to why he would have it facing the wrong direction as well and since this goes directly into our closet I'm assuming we will see a leak once it does happen. This guy works on his own and has a 1 year warranty. Even if he does offer an extended warranty, he could easily not honor it since he's on his own and not with a company.
__________________
Denise
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 09:37 AM   #14
speed51133
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Milwaukee WI area
Posts: 982
one year is NOTHING. even if he used MDF as a backerboard it could last a year. While I am not a pro, any pros I have dealt with offer 10 years.

I am not a fan of denseshield either, but that alone does not mean the guy is a hack. It is an accepted product by any standards WHEN properly applied.

curious how much you spent so far and how much you still owe?
__________________
Mike
speed51133 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2020, 10:02 AM   #15
DeniseWChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 21
Well, this is my SECOND shower we have had done as our first guy improperly pitched the floor as well as some other plumbing issues.

Our second contractor (who was highly recommended by two friends who have had him do two bathrooms) is charging 6K for labor (including stuff in the bathroom unrelated to shower.) I paid him 3k at the start and owe him 3k upon completion, which is very soon.
__________________
Denise
DeniseWChicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you line up wall grout line with ceiling tile? rmf Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 04-03-2016 06:26 PM
Uneven toilet on tile floor, plaster, grout adhesive, sanded grout? DYIJoe Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 05-18-2015 09:07 PM
Best grout line and grout for granite tile kitchen countertops? steventhomas42 Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 02-18-2010 03:00 PM
Uneven line ab6219 Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 07-24-2009 08:42 AM
Uneven grout line tile-noob13 Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 08-01-2007 11:29 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC