Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 10-26-2020, 05:42 AM   #1
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Hesitantly Taking On Shower Remodel

Hello all.
A quick little background to my unfortunate project. I had an acrylic shower/tub combo. At some point a leak started behind the acrylic causing damage to the drywall/plaster walls. Called around to a few contractors to redo the bathroom but the couple that got back to me are booked out at least 6 months. So, unwillingly I decided to take it on myself... And here I am with the shower gutted in my only bathroom ready to put it back together. I've spent much time reading up and being indecisive and not enough time doing anything...

The plan for now: Ditched the tub for good and doing a 3x5 shower. New plumbing will be installed (I have help for this). The walls, floor and ceiling will be tiled. I'm using 1/2" Hardi Backer (already have) with RedGard or Aquadefense.

I have a question regarding insulation...

Two of the shower walls are interior and one is exterior. I had blown-in insulation installed several years ago. Of course, that came out with the wall and I'm wondering what I should put back in. The exterior wall is south facing and receives plenty of sun. I live in PA. The house was built in 1955 and has aluminum siding, some sort of weak thin paper, wood siding, tar paper, and 2x4 framing. It is a tiny one-story house with an exposed foundation so it's an unfinished concrete basement below and the roof above.

Looking for recommendation on what insulation would be best. One thing to keep in mind it has to be able to fit in a car. I was thinking of foam board. There are 2'x2' sheets available in 1" unfaced polystyrene. I was thinking of doubling up on those for a 2" thickness and fill the seams with a can of foam spray.

Would that be good and comparable to the other walls with the blown-in cellulose in terms of insulating value and sound deadening? Or does it not matter because it's such a small section?

Thank you
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 10-26-2020, 06:34 AM   #2
mykcuz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 36
I use roxul.i recommend installing in exterior and interior walls for sound isolation. I also insulate pipes with pipe wrap. Roxul fits in 2x4 walls, is fire resistant, is not damaged by moisture, and dampens sound greatly. Use the excess in your unfinished basement, or in the attic above.

Spray foam is good for air sealing, but I prefer using fire caulk for sealing penetrations like pipes, wires, e.t.c

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
Mike
mykcuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-26-2020, 06:45 AM   #3
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
I used 2 layers of XPS foamboard in my 2x4 exterior wall bays during my last shower remodel deep enough to fill the entire bay and sealed the gaps with expanding foam - had no issues and the XPS did a great job of reducing noise and keeping the bathroom insulated.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-26-2020, 06:57 AM   #4
mykcuz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 36
You can get away with this, but it's not the intended use of rigid foam. Foam is meant to span walls to prevent thermal bridging.

One issue is that expansion and contraction of the wood studs will crack the spray foam and you lose your r value with air coming through.

Second, foams r value decreases over time as the foam ages.

I use roxul for reasons above, plus it moves with the studs expansion contraction, and insulates as designed forever.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
Mike

Last edited by cx; 10-26-2020 at 08:04 AM.
mykcuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-26-2020, 08:08 AM   #5
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Thanks for the suggestions!
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 08:37 AM   #6
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Alternative Waterproofing Methods?

I'd like some input in regards to the method of waterproofing that would be the easiest for a first timer without sacrificing the end result. This is all out of my scope of DIY work so if there is a better way to go about it than what I was going to do I'd like to consider those options.


1. My original plan is to do the traditional mud pan and curb with HardieBacker on the walls covered in Redgard.
Price is right and I already have the Hardie. But I've read that with Redgard you have to be particular with how it's applied. Not too thin, not to thick. Careful with full coverage and no pinholes and such. I also have some slight concern over getting the slope just right in the pan.

2. Another option would be get the Kerdi pan and curb kit and still use the HardieBacker but with the Kerdi membrane.
Price is way higher. But is the membrane easier and more foolproof to do than Redgard? I've read mixed opinions on whether the Kerdi pan is easier than a traditional mud. Seems like it would be easier for someone who has not done this before.

3. Last method would be to stick with the traditional mud pan and curb but do the HardieBacker on the walls with the Kerdi membrane.


What are the pros and cons to these?
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 09:03 AM   #7
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,260
1. Nothing at all wrong with that approach. The Hardiebacker is not the best choice when needing to match the thickness of adjacent drywall (Hardiebacker 500 is not 1/2" thick. Closer to 7/16ths) and tends to be a bit more difficult to cover with a liquid-applied water proofing membrane. It can all be done, of course.

RedGard, or similar, on walls is not particularly difficult to make waterproof. No rocket surgery involved, they just require some attention to detail. Getting the material on thick enough is not as simple as painting the bedroom walls, but it can be done. Getting it too thick is absolutely not even a consideration.

If you construct a traditional receptor you might also consider just using 6mil polyethylene behind your Hardiebacker as your water containment method and eliminate the liquid-applied membrane all together.

Making a sloped mud floor is not at all difficult and the material is cheep as dirt. You can make many trial placements if necessary to get it right. We've had hundreds of visitors here make their first one successfully on the first try. Sometimes takes two tries.

2. You can do that, but it's much more expensive than the traditional receptor construction. And a mud floor is much better than the foam trays.

Installing Kerdi membrane over Hardiebacker involves the same bonding difficulties as with the liquid-applied membranes; the Hardie tends to suck moisture out of the bonding mortar too quickly. This can be overcome by sufficiently dampening the Hardiebacker before application of the mortar, though.

3. If you're planning to use a sheet-type bonded waterproofing membrane (Kerdi is one such) for your wall waterproofing, I'd recommend you do the receptor with that material as well.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 10:12 AM   #8
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
For the 3rd option when you say if I apply the Kerdi membrane over the walls that I should do it to the receptor as well. Do you mean do the traditional mud pan but then apply the membrane over that?

For me the thickness of the cement board won't matter. My existing walls and ceiling aren't typical drywall. It's a layer of drywall and plaster which is in no way smooth or flat. So no matter which cement board I use nothing is going to line up with the thickness and I'll have to work with it somehow.

Thank you.
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 11:10 AM   #9
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,260
Yes, that's what I mean. You'd need to change to the membrane manufacturer's bonding flange drain, too.

You can do just what you're suggesting, of course, I just don't think I'd bother with the sheet membrane on the walls with a traditional receptor.

If I were doing a traditional receptor and CBU walls, I'd opt for the moisture barrier behind the CBU walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 02:42 PM   #10
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Thank you.
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 02:59 PM   #11
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,260
Another serious drawback to using Hardiebacker with a traditional shower receptor, Nic, is that you cannot embed the Hardie into the final mud bed to hold the bottom of the panel where you cannot use any mechanical fasteners. With the true (ASTM 1325) cement boards you have that option.

With a direct bonded waterproofing membrane receptor, that point becomes moot.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 04:02 PM   #12
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
In that instance are you saying I could do the walls first with the Hardie and Kerdi membrane all the way to the floor? Then construct the mud pan with the membrane over that sealing in all the seams and corners?
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 05:07 PM   #13
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,260
Yes.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-06-2020, 05:36 PM   #14
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Thanks again CX.
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2020, 06:15 AM   #15
niccv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: PA
Posts: 17
Subfloor Prep

My current subfloor is 3/4" T&G. I've had to cut out some patches that were rotted due to water damage. I used AdvanTech OSB in those areas. It's rated as water resistant and looked better than the plywood available. One area I replaced is 16"x9" and the other is 13"x32". Because the OSB thickness is not the same as the T&G they sit slightly lower. I would like to lay solid layer over everything so the shower floor is one solid piece. I tried looking up more info on that but searching for "OSB" didn't bring any results. Seems plywood is the most common material used.
Can I use the OSB as my solid second layer? And will I need to do something to fill the difference between the OSB patches and the subfloor first?
In case it makes a difference I will be doing a traditional mud pan.
__________________
Nic
niccv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shower drain not level, taking over from plumber smred Tile Forum/Advice Board 94 01-23-2020 06:06 PM
Deb's shower project, or "Am I taking on too much?" Got2Girls Tile Forum/Advice Board 49 05-28-2012 01:02 PM
New shower tiles taking in water..help Vix Tile Forum/Advice Board 11 03-05-2010 04:06 PM
can i rebuild shower floor without taking out mortar floor ddyess Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 07-24-2008 04:54 AM
re tile shower walls w/o taking out floor redclay Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 01-19-2006 06:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC