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Unread 09-07-2019, 11:35 AM   #16
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
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I totally agree with Kevin about the mortar. If it was me and some how I got talked into tiling over tile the only mortar I would use in the Custom Building Products line would be MegaLite.

For the perimeter, I would just grout the whole pan in. That advice goes against industry standards and isn't the correct thing to say but caulking the perimeter and having it look good would not be an easy thing to tackle.


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Unread 09-07-2019, 01:30 PM   #17
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If you use a profile, you grout directly up to it. If there’s a color close to either the wall tile or that you use on the floor, it should work. Grout might work, but if it cracks later, it might be a major pain to fix.

These guys have lots more practical experience than I, so take that into consideration.
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Unread 09-07-2019, 01:43 PM   #18
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Like Jim, I'd grout solid to the wall. It's not going by the book but if it ever cracks then scrape it out right against the wall and touch it up.
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Unread 09-08-2019, 07:55 AM   #19
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Thanks for all of the input guys - much appreciated.

Made a stop at tile shop yesterday to pick up all supplies. Made some changes based on comments here and product availability at the store. Now going with:

1. Mapei Ultraflex LFT thinset - hopefully a better choice than the Versabond
2. Miracle Sealants 511 Impregnator Sealer
3. Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA grout
4. Mapei Mapesil T color-matched silicone caulk (see below)

I have some scrap pieces of vinyl plank flooring that happen to measure about 0.17" thick. Seems like it could make for a perfect perimeter spacer while setting the pebbles and would also give me something to grout up against.

But, now I'm seeing some conflicting advice from the group here about whether to just grout all the way into the wall/floor joint or come back with silicone caulk after the fact. I think grouting into a "channel" left by using a perimeter spacer could work, but I do have some concern about having it look bad. I don't know which way to go at this point.

Also, I picked up a grinding pad for my oscillating tool - one of THESE.
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Thought this might do a better job of roughing up the existing floor tiles before laying pebbles.

Thanks for keeping up with all of this and for sharing your thoughts and ideas.
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Unread 09-08-2019, 09:32 AM   #20
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Drain Details. Took a harder look at the existing drain and the drain extender I bought. A few concerns - here are some pics:

1. ORIGINAL DRAIN
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Original drain has a pair of notches that would any water seeping between the metal cover and plastic drain frame get to the drain.
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2. WITH DRAIN EXTENDER
Notches in original frame are "blocked" - inside the drain extender. Should I be worried about this impeding drainage either from the drain perimeter or of water that makes it through the pebbles/grout? I'm probably overthinking this.
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This last pic shows that the finished pebble surface would be well above the final drain rim height. The difference is about 0.2 inches. Maybe more considering there will be some thinset between the existing tiles and the new pebbles. Maybe this is a problem? I could add a second extension ring...
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Unread 09-08-2019, 03:21 PM   #21
Davy
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The extender I see online shows spacers that will let it adjust up to 1/2 inch. Did yours come with those? Tiling over tile, especially on a shower floor is something most here have never done so we don't have any experience with what you're dealing with. I see no harm in cutting a few small slots for water to escape.
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Unread 09-08-2019, 05:20 PM   #22
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Ive done numerous tile over tile jobs with good success. You are doing everything quite well. Put a couple of matching notches in your extender to match the original drain. When grouting,put the blade of a 4inch putty knife between the stones and the vertical surface. Grout up to the blade and when done,slide the blade to the next position and repeat. This will leave about an 1/8inch gap around the perimeter for caulking. Your Mapei products are similar to what I would use.
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Unread 09-16-2019, 05:12 PM   #23
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Thanks for all of the advise and tips, everyone. I've made some good progress and so far so good! A few new questions at the end of this post as I'm moving toward finishing this project.

To recap recent work done:
  • Roughed up the existing tiles a bit more with the diamond grit pad I linked in a prior post. It actually worked pretty well, to my surprise.
  • Raised the drain a little bit more by cutting some custom shims from a thin sheet of PVC I had laying around from a past project and pairing those with the drain extension kit. Left a pair of "notches" in the new drain extender shims to match those in the original drain.
  • Used some strips of leftover vinyl plank flooring, about 0.17" around the perimeter of the shower pan to set and keep a clean gap between the new pebbles and the existing wall tiles.
  • I set the pebbles Friday afternoon without too much trouble using the Mapei Ultraflex LFT. I did have some issues where too much thinset squeezed up between the pebbles in one small area, but that was the worst of it. Dug most of that out while things were wet and then managed to scrouge out the rest using a diamond tipped bit on my Dremel on Sunday morning - about 15 mins of work, so not bad.
  • Sunday afternoon, 48 hours after setting them, I sealed the pebbles using 511 Impregnator Sealer.
  • Today (Monday), 24 hours after sealing, I grouted using Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA. I grouted right up against the perimeter vinyl flooring strips. After I finished grouting and cleaning up I pulled the strips and got a pretty good clean channel around the edge - should be set for caulking.

I'm planning to use Mapei Mapesil T 100% silicone caulk. Now the questions:

1. I'm planning to apply another coat of the 511 impregnator sealer to the pebbles and grout. How long should I wait now that I've grouted to apply the sealer again?

2. Should I caulk the perimeter channel with silicone before or after applying another round of 511?

3. I saw this YouTube Video from Sal DiBlasi where he sprayed tiles along joints to be caulked with silicone with denatured alcohol, which appears to make things less messy. Would I have issues using this method along the edges of the pebble floor or should denatured alcohol be avoided with natural pebbles? Maybe it's OK since the pebbles have already been sealed once with 511?
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Unread 09-18-2019, 03:26 PM   #24
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Progress Pics and Grout Questions

A few status pics of the pebble tile floor attached.

I applied another coat of 511 Impregnator Sealer after I had let the grout cure for 48 hours. Waiting 48 hours after grouting with Ultracolor Plus FA was the advice I got from a Mapei tech representative.

Now I'm waiting for the 511 to dry/set before caulking the outside perimeter.

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Today I was cleaning out the "channel" I left open for caulking along the edges (third pic attached above). I found a couple of spots (not shown in pic) where I definitely either missed applying enough grout or I accidentally dug out too much with the wash sponge. The two areas are about 1.5" square. One in the very back corner and one in the front left corner. Definitely enough where water will collect and sit in these two spots where the grout is not up close enough to the face of the pebbles.

Since I only caught this now AFTER I've applied 511 sealer to the pebbles and grout, what options do I have? Can I mix up a bit more grout and apply it in the areas where I messed up? Would I have to try to dig out the grout that is in those spots?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.
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Unread 10-20-2020, 08:03 AM   #25
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Chemical Smell from Shower Floor?

Hi all,

About a year ago I installed a pebble tile floor in my master shower stall. Received some great advice on materials and methods from this group and the job turned out great.

Details of original install are found in this post.

The floor looks great, is holding up well and draining fine - no issues there.

In addition to the pebbles, I used these products:

1. Mapei Ultraflex LFT thinset
2. Miracle Sealants 511 Impregnator Sealer
3. Mapei Ultracolor Plus FA grout
4. Mapei Mapesil T color-matched silicone caulk

Since a year had passed from install and after using the shower every day, if not multiple times a day, I decided to re-apply the same sealant to the floor. All went well - thoroughly cleaned the floor, applied sealant per mfg directions, allowed full cure time, etc.

Now, maybe 3 or 4 weeks later, I'm noticing a pronounced chemical smell coming from the shower every morning, especially after the bathroom door has been closed for awhile. This is a new thing - immediately after I re-sealed the floor there was a faint smell for a few days, then it went away - now it's back and seems much stronger.

It's not coming directly from the drain, at least that's what my nose tells me. I suspected maybe some of the sealer had soaked into the silicone caulk around the floor perimeter, but I can't detect any stronger smell from the caulk than from anywhere else.

Anyone ever experienced this and have any ideas on how to remedy? It's possible, I guess, that it has nothing to do with the sealant, but it seems the most likely source of the every-morning chem smell.
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Unread 10-20-2020, 08:20 AM   #26
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Welcome back, Jason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
I decided to re-apply the same sealant to the floor.
Are you talking about the Mapesil T sealant or the 511 sealer?
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Unread 10-20-2020, 08:48 AM   #27
sfbayjay
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511 Impregnator Sealer, Miracle Sealants Company

That's the only sealer I've ever applied to this floor. I sealed the pebbles after setting but before grouting, and again after grouting but before caulking peremiter.

Now I applied again a year later.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 02:19 PM   #28
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Bump: Anyone?
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Unread 10-27-2020, 05:58 PM   #29
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Apparently no one has had that problem but maybe someone will come along. I would keep the door open as much as possible and not seal it anymore. I don't think the sealer is doing much good anyway.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 06:21 PM   #30
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Just a random thought but how much sealer did you apply and how long did the shower dry out before you applied it? I would wonder if even a small amount got down to the pan and is sitting on even a small amount of moisture it may take a while for it to off gassing to be done.
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