Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-05-2019, 11:50 AM   #1
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
trying to match 3/4" hardwood height

new build for son- we are doing tile due to lack of money-3/4" bellawood will meet 1/4" porcelain tile over 1/4" hardi board . I need to know if this will end up at 3/4" or higher and what size of trowel for bond between hardi board subfloor and hardi board /tile to come up at 3/4 " I also wonder if I butter will it raise tile too much above 3/4" and which profile thickness should I use from home depot 3/8" or 5/16" since 1/4" is not offered. I hope to nt cause the hardwood to be shimmed thus asking here. Motown plumber ( I know I can do a sample -just thought a pro may know already best way frward
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-05-2019, 01:41 PM   #2
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 13,007
First a couple of questions:
- are you certain that the structure and subfloor are properly prepared for tile?
- most tile are thicker than 1/4", are you sure of that?

HD has access to all of the Schluter profiles by special order, and if in a rush, you can order direct from them, so you should be able to get the exact one you want. you can search them on this website: www.schluter.com

The thickness of thinset depends a lot on how literally flat the surfaces are. Many tile are not perfectly flat on the bottom (cupped, warped, twisted, etc., albeit maybe only slightly)...the further from flat any surface is, the thicker you need to make the thinset. Also, if any one dimension on the tile exceeds 15", you should be using a LFT mortar, and generally, that needs to be installed a bit thicker. It's always a good idea to burn in a layer of thinset on the back of the tile...this could end up being literally paper thin if it's flat, or deeper to make the tile's back now flat, if it's not. The flatness of the subfloor would then determine how thick your notches would need to be.

Industry standards call for a certain degree of flatness, and if not currently there, calls for fixing that prior to installing the tile. So, those standards are based on the longest side of a tile...the bigger the tile, the flatter the floor must be.

So, not giving you a specific answer without some more information. My guess is that the tile would end up above the hardwood using 1/4" backer. An alternative to that might be Ditra or DitraXL, which saves the step of the backer and all of the screws and taping of the seams.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 02:26 PM   #3
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Thanks, as far as the subfloor being prepared for tile question, I have only started educting mself and absent I believe wonderboard install instructions mentioning leave 1/8" gap o subfloor ( no reason given) I do not know of any spec for subfloor other than 3/4 cdx being ok due to being over 5/8" minimum.
Thanks for recommending measuring tile. I will buy hardiboard thinset and tile and piec of hardwood to set up a test on actual thickness. If you are correct, would I shim the hardwood 1/8 say to bring it up to tile and if so is there thinset needed in the airpocket the shim cause or some writte approved procedure absent removing 3/4" sub floor and install 5/8". I will look at the stuff you mentioned yet wonder its total height with 1/4 or 3/8 tile.I project 30 or 40 feet of transition ( linear) so I want to find a way to do it right (match hardwood height without routering .What size trowel would I want if i do test with buttering paper thin tile back to keep height down?
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 03:15 PM   #4
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Love the membrane by schluter ditra. I will go with this where can i go buy this and maybe even tile to end up at 3/4" and use their profiles I am in Detroit?
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 03:59 PM   #5
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 13,007
A CDX is NOT sufficient. Your underlayment must not contain a D-face, and MUST be T&G, or you have blocking installed across all joints (much easier to deal with a T&G panel designed for subflooring. A 5/8" panel would be the absolute minimum to meet industry specs.

Then, it is important to know the span of the supporting joists, their species, spacing, and height. For a solid ceramic install, it must be at least L/360. Use the 'Deflecto' tool in the blue bar above. Note, the span is NOT the room size, it is the unsupported length of the joists, which usually is larger than the room.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 07:06 PM   #6
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Mot toung groove. Not pulling it up. Can I do something to the square cut cdx 3/4 to still install tile without pulling up? would the membrane work on it? I can change the floor orig designed cdx to accept nails for all hardwood, tile was last min change
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 08:00 PM   #7
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 10,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by birmingplumb View Post
Mot toung groove. Not pulling it up. Can I do something to the square cut cdx 3/4 to still install tile without pulling up? would the membrane work on it? I can change the floor orig designed cdx to accept nails for all hardwood, tile was last min change
You may have success by adding 3/8" or 1/2" plywood over what you have with an acceptable face grade, but then you're abandoning your hope of getting the floors even with each other.

To add blocking, you'd have to have access from underneath, and have someone hold the blocking in place spanning the plywood joints while a second person drives screws in from above. You can use 2x4's for the blocking, or 4" rips of plywood, cut to about 1/2" shy of the width of each joist bay. 2" deck screws would be sufficient.

If you don't have access to the floor from underneath, then you would have to take up the plywood to add the blocking. If you don't won't to do that, I would recommend you not install tile over the floor, as it would definitely crack along the plywood seams.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 08:29 PM   #8
Elkski
Took the Schluter part 1 class my team won!
 
Elkski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasatch front, Utah
Posts: 773
Like others have said you need to determine how strong your floor is in the deflecto calculator using beam length and thickness and height. I think you need to think of do I want to install tile okay I will install tile correctly and height at the wood floor be damned. I was like you before trying to match the floor but don't worry about that a little step isn't a problem at all. I'm just about to wrap up a basement bathroom and it's going to be at 15/16 in 1 doorway and 1 1/16 difference up to the tile in another doorway. I will make a 2in ramp out of wood that goes on top of the vinyl wood look floor and is level with the tile
__________________
Teddy
Elkski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2019, 10:01 PM   #9
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 13,007
The problem with D-faced stuff is the voids. Tile doesn't like voids, and it is less strong. If it's sheathing grade ply, the internal plies may also have voids. Underlayment grade stuff does not...any knots will have plugs so all layers will be 100% intact with no voids.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 05:46 AM   #10
jeffmattero76
JeffMattero76
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 15
As far as the differing heights of the flooring, where the Bellwood meets the tile, won't you be using a threshold at that joint? If so, the 1/4" or so difference in floor height will not be noticed.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
__________________
Jeff
jeffmattero76 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 06:22 AM   #11
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
I just double checked my plumber assumption with the builder. He DID use tongue and groove cdx subfloor over #2 pine 2x10 joists 16" on center. He did say that 1/4" tile I plan on using on either hardi board or dietra xm would crack and it had to be tile rated for floor, so I have to ask here will this work for me to achieve my close to 3/4" height? He did say he would install the hardwood first, so as to not force beginner son to layout entire mixed material 800 sq ft floor. Here is what I thougt I was gonna use.

https://www.menards.com/main/floorin...010419&&ipos=1

will this work and not crack ? It says floor rated, it is on sale and porcelain and it is 1/4" - I can afford this. Which system hardi or diera considering the 4 ft of linear profile I need to join hardwood solid bellawood.
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 07:23 AM   #12
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,129
Welcome, Michael. I'll capitalize your signature name since it appears you've lost your shift key.

What is the unsupported span of those 2x10 joists?

While it is helpful that your CD plywood has T&G edges, the grade is still not adequate for a ceramic tile installation for the reasons cited above. The use of a CBU as your tiling substrate will help somewhat to alleviate some of those deficiencies, but it's still not a suitable subflooring material.

Not sure just what you're referring to as a "profile" between your tile and hardwood flooring, but you don't actually require anything there other than a movement accommodation joint, which can be nothing more than a gap filled with a flexible sealant. If you have differing heights of flooring, I'd generally make a wood reducer to match or closely approximate the wood flooring that would match the height of each flooring material. Generally very easy to do.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 08:13 AM   #13
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Thank you. The house is 26 ft deep and a beam is 13 ft down center so I plugged in deflocto meet even at 14 ft and exeed 360. correct if wrong.
I double checked again with builder. IT is CDX tongue groove stagered over 2x 10 pine joists 16" on center.
Pleas expand on comment not suitable for tile if cdx. And is here a remedy"
4 areas of tile.
1. 8x11 kit
2. 6x4 square at front door
3. small bath
4. small utility

I like the profile look of brass 1/8" strip between wood and tile just saying .
abandon tile idea?Motown
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 08:43 AM   #14
cx
Da Home Builder
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 88,129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Pleas expand on comment not suitable for tile if cdx.
See Post #9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
And is here a remedy"
See Posts #7 and 12.

If you wanna tile over what you've got, that's up to you. We can only tell you what the ceramic tile industry recommends and where the smart money is betting.

If you like the look of a brass strip between your floor coverings, by all means put one there. But you still must provide a movement accommodation joint at that junction.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2019, 09:00 AM   #15
birmingplumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 10
Thanks, builder got pissed when I asked for spec on subfloor cdx said crawl under take pic. Rep from schulter dmx just called. He said I should use detra xl which is 5/16" thick, 3/8" tile to match height of 3/4" hardwood.And a profile that is a 1/16" to 3/32" higher than tile thickness when physically held on different profiles -said prob 7/16". He did not know about putting his detra over cdx. But said I should be fine since its regular plywood commonly used.
__________________
Michael
birmingplumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mud bed to Raise tile height to match hardwood. Manns50 Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 07-22-2018 09:27 PM
Tile height and grout line match daringilbert Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 05-09-2010 09:56 AM
Grout Height "Industry Standard" and near flush height possibility? emilyardore Tile Forum/Advice Board 31 04-21-2010 09:16 AM
Match height between hallway and bath ranger_mn Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 03-27-2006 12:08 PM
How to match underlayment height with subfloor height? noob Tile Forum/Advice Board 22 08-04-2005 04:51 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:48 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC