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Old 07-30-2019, 05:09 PM   #1
A. Spruce
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Newbie Q's

Hello all, Spruce here, and I have some questions on all things tile.

First, I've been doing a lot of reading through the site and forum, looking for the info that is pertinent to my situation. As a veteran of forums, I know how annoying it is when people keep asking the same Q's without trying to find the info for themselves. I'm sure that everything I'm about to ask has been covered already, I just haven't found it yet and I'm running out of time for needing the info. So, please bear with me, and, feel free to provide a link to the articles or threads where the info can be found if you don't feel like discussing it again. All help is greatly appreciated.

I am a retired GC and been out of the game for a little while. A friend with a developmentally disabled teen son (limited mobility, agility, and strength) has tasked me with remodeling their bathroom to enlarge the shower and make more of a "wet room" because the teen can't hit the toilet when urinating and also needs assistance in the shower.

The plan is to make the toilet and shower one area so that the urine around the toilet can be washed down easily with the shower wand. Also, by combining the two, we are able to substantially increase the size of the shower area for two full grown people to be in there at the same time. So, this is the background.

We are planning to do a mud bed for at least the shower, probably the entire floor (roughly 6'x8') with cultured marble panels lining three of the walls. We'll be recessing the floor to make room for the tile mud bed. I expect that the existing floor is 2x6 T&G over 4x6 girders, I won't be certain until it's opened up next week, and will post an update so that we may talk about whether or not deflection will come into play with the floor structure.

First question: Every tile shower I've ever been involved in my 30 year career has been hot mopped with tar and roofing felt. The reading I've been doing here indicates that nobody on this forum does this, in which case, how the heck you creating the water proof pan? I'm in California, FWIW.

This post reference doesn't even show a layer of felt under the mud bed to prevent the mud from drying too quickly, let alone provide water proofing. It relies fully on a Kerdi membrane. This intrigues me, but how is it sealed at the drain to prevent leakage? Are there any California guys here using this method and not getting smacked by the inspector?
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:45 PM   #2
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Hi Spruce. We knew where you were from as soon as you mentioned hot mop.

The Kerdi membrane is water proof and it's installed over your mudbed with unmodified thinset. Seams are overlapped 2 inches. Tiles are then bonded directly to the Kerdi. With a hot mop, a mudbed is needed over the hot mop, then bond the tiles to that.
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:10 PM   #3
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Hey Spruce!

I want to commend you on a great project and I’d be happy to help in any way.

As Davy said, the kerdi fabric bonds directly to the the drain assembly as well as the Kerdi walls.

I’ve posted the section of my shower project below which details the Kerdi shower floor and drain.

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...59#post1330859

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Old 07-30-2019, 08:38 PM   #4
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You can install Ditra over the floors leading into the shower to provide a fully water proof floor including the terlet area!

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Old 07-31-2019, 12:17 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

PC7060 - Looks like I've got some reading to do (re: link).

I'll do up a rough floor plan here real soon to give you guys an idea of what I'm working with. I'll also get in some actual site pix as the job starts and progresses.

As a GC, I opted to have subs for the things I was out of my depth on. Being the busy GC that I was, I often didn't have the time to watch what my subs were doing, or more accurately, HOW my subs were doing what they were doing. In my now older and wiser days, I now regret this faux pas, as my tile guy in particular was an absolute artisan!

Back to topic, and this question is probably answered in PC's link, but how is the Kerdi bonded to the drain?
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:27 AM   #6
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How is there no "quote" button to respond to posts? If it's there, somewhere, I'm not seeing it.

PC - I am aware of Kerdi, Ditra, and a few other new fangled products, but these were not around in my day, at least not readily used/talked about in my area, pre-2005. Can you please elaborate on what "Ditra" product/method you're referring to? Is this a Home Depot or Lowe's available product, or does it require a tile supplier?
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:45 AM   #7
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Davy - Being a newbie to the site, I can't post links, even if they're from the JB site, so unfortunately, I can't show where I saw the Kerdi membrane installation. When I can post links, I'll happily provide a reference to where some of my questions originate.

Or, maybe, I'll just make some random posts until I can provide those links? Nah, I won't do that. I get why site rules are created, I'll just bide my time until I'm a full fledged member and am able to post whatever shizzle-crizzap I want. Am I there yet? how 'bout now?
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:02 AM   #8
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With your third post, you're now able to post links.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:56 AM   #9
A. Spruce
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damnit, Kman, don't toy with me! :wink:
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Old 07-31-2019, 03:00 AM   #10
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Testing!

This is the image and link to the Kerdi install I referred to in my first post.

https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...4&postcount=10

Outward appearance is no barrier between plywood subfloor and mud bed, contrary to everything I've read here.

Asked earlier, how is the Kerdi membrane sealed to the drain to create the waterproof pan?
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Old 07-31-2019, 04:55 AM   #11
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Tarpaper between the plywood and mud base.

The Kerdi drain has a wide rim around it and has a fabric-like material bonded to it so that the Kerdi can bond to it.

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Old 07-31-2019, 05:58 AM   #12
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Spruce, you might also consider/propose a wall hung toilet for this wet room. Since it doesn't sit on the floor it's going to much easier to keep clean - especially if you tile the wall behind it, it won't care if the floor is flat (which may be helpful if you need to pitch the floor to a drain for wash downs), and it can be adjusted to exactly the height needed.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:49 AM   #13
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the quote button has NEVER shown itself to me.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mike
never understood why that is....
Mike, we removed the Quote button from the site many years ago due to overuse as you still see on some sites with a Quote button.

In our FAQ is a brief tutorial on how to post and properly attribute posts here on the site and it's very simple once you see it.

While we recognize that quoting pertinent information is frequently helpful in making a point, the constant quoting of entire posts with every new post just results in unnecessary clutter. Especially when the quoted material appears immediately above the post being made. We certainly hope most folks never bother to search out that little dot, eh?
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:00 AM   #15
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Spruce, the quote button was taken out long ago when members were using it to quote entire posts when they were only referencing a single sentence. It made the pages very long, and difficult to navigate.

You can quote any part or all of a post fairly easily with these instructions.
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