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Old 08-06-2019, 09:05 AM   #16
Elkski
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Just quit worrying about the difference in heights or go hardwood everywhere. Do it right and make or buy transitions. After you put on a new half inch of plywood and you ditra or CBU you can then determine what height transition you may need to buy or order if you want metal. I didn't Google you're Hardwood brand but if it's ever going to be refinished I like to make these transitions removable. I usually use Oak and Mill a piece of wood that has about a 3/16 lip on both surfaces and a ramp between them it's usually about 2 in wide. For hardwood floors that may need to be refinished i countersink three or four screws across the door width and then plug them with a dowel plug. This way the Dowel plugs can be drilled out and the transition removed for the hardwood floor refinishing and then put back in position and I have done this and it looks perfect after reinstallation and a new finish
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:40 AM   #17
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Michael, I'd recommend you measure your proposed hardwood flooring to see what thickness you'll actually be dealing with. I doubt it will be 3/4" thick.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:56 AM   #18
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So sounds like 3 options.

1. tile over existing cdx and not piss off builder anymore ( we are both 70 by way)...... and stick to smaller tiles maybe 12 x 12 or 6x6".....live with it if it cracks due to air pockets in cdx...
2. add 1/2" plywood which piss off builder cut all doors
3 go to original hardwood in kitchen and entrance square...tile the bath and laundry where a crack wont be seen.

Leaning towards 1.
If I go 3.....should i apply redguard or waterproof subfloor cdx under hardwood?
Thanks all....and is the ditra worth cost ? close to ordering in Motown
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:55 PM   #19
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If you read the installation instructions for ANY tile underlayment material...they all call for a proper subfloor. You do not have a proper subfloor, so any testing that they may have done is invalid.

FWIW, the size of the tile has nothing to do with whether it will have cracks or not...larger tile requires a flatter floor, but other than that, if it's going to crack, doesn't matter what size the tile is.

If you added a nominal 1/2" ply on top of what you have, then a tile underlayment (Ditra is one of your thinner choices), then it should be okay. Otherwise, who knows...odds are, things will crack. That might happen right away, or it might take 5 or even 10-years. Throw a party and have 20-people dancing, and it might crack immediately.
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:02 PM   #20
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Where is this tile going and how is it just much cheaper than hardwood? Between cement board, thinset, trowels, buckets etc is there really that much of a difference to just more wood when you are already putting wood in?
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
new build for son- we are doing tile due to lack of money-3/4" bellawood will meet 1/4" porcelain tile over 1/4" hardi board .
Charlie, I think he means they are doing the work themselves to save money, not that the tile is the less expensive option.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:08 PM   #22
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I think laundry and bathroom should be tile no Hardwood kitchen can be hardwood but I still think tile is better there. I have hardwood in the kitchen and a plate dropped straight down bounced up and I caught it and it didn't break. But tile is better and in vogue. Cutting three doors takes 2 hours they shouldn't even be on yet. Here is an oak threshold I made to match a 3/4"hardwood floor . The tile is on half-inch plywood and then ditra similar to what you may have. It looks about 1/2" step down. This has never been an issue to walk across. . Also here is my design I'm considering for my 1 inch ( yes
1" difference) step up from Vinyl waterproof snap-together flooring to my current tile project on ditra heat duo on 1/4"-1/2" SLC. I'm considering leaving a 3/16 Gap put some backer rod in there and then caulking with sanded grout rather than make the threshold 3/16 inch taller and overlap onto the tile my tile edge is straight. I will have about 3/4 inch a flat contact surface for my threshold against the floor and will use Liquid nail probably
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:17 AM   #23
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Thank you one and all for educating me on subfloor. I decided to just tile the bath and utility room and omit the kitchen and entrance by making them also White Oak Bellawood 3/4"- saving all the cut ins and some money and reducing concern of cracking in visible area.
I can do Hardibacker or the Ditra and my question is the tub joint and the perimeter . I saw Ditra "tape" tub and wonder what the pros do at the tub besides silicone caulk and what if anything should be done for expansion considering 7x7 and 7 x9 small rooms and 1/4" porcelain on either Hardi or Ditra. Motown
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:37 AM   #24
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I have a question related. If its consensus that 1-1/8" minimum or equivelant and no cdx 3/4" single layer is spec'd here by many,why does Ditra installation hand book state on page 4 the following. ....
......16" o.c. joist spacing, single layer OSB or plywood subfloor-
Areas of application-over a even and structually sound o.s.b or plywood subfloor with 16" o.c. joist spacing
( page 4 https://sccpublic.s3-external-1.amaz...20Handbook.pdf

Why miss the chance to explain "structually sound plywood" such as NO singl layer CDX which is all new builds where I come from- ?

Sales would drop?

And if their lawyers put that structually sound qualifier in there for future lawsuits - Paragraph is single layer wood.....says single layer plywood subfloor- and cdx not 50 $ a sheet sanded high grade is used for subfloors ..is this decietful not mentioning cdx only structuall sound? I argue no such thing as structually sound single layer plywood---- used commonly and merits mention the fact. or you argued .....may go to wonderboard due to this flim flam from Germans. Motown
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:17 AM   #25
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Michael, best advice I can give you on the CD plywood as a subfloor for your tile installation is if you like it, you use it. The industry, and Schluter Systems, recognize that CD plywood does not qualify as "structurally sound" material for your application. The presence of large open voids on the surfaces and in the inner plies is what renders it unsuitable. The generally poor quality of the materials used in CD panels contributes, but is not necessarily addressed. I think if you'll read all of Schluter's instructions you'll find somewhere that they address "plugged" faces, which you will not find in your CD grade plywood.

If you are using a CBU over that kind of subfloor, rather than any sort of bonded membrane, your chances of success in a ceramic tile installation are improved, but I'd still avoid it in all residential subflooring applications.

All joints between your ceramic tile and dissimilar materials require a movement accommodation joint of some sort. It can be an open joint if it will be covered with something like baseboard, or it can be filled with a flexible sealant, but it must be there.

There is no "consensus" that a minimum of 1 1/8th" is required anywhere in the ceramic tile industry. I'm guessing you mean subfloor thickness there and that is a common misconception. The subfloor requirements are specified in the ANSI standards or in manufacturers' instructions, but you'll not find any mention of a minimum total thickness 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" as sometimes mistakenly mentioned. The minimum subflooring in the tile industry is actually nominal 5/8ths" plywood over 16" joist spacing, but I wouldn't install ceramic tile over that on a bet.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 08-08-2019, 03:18 PM   #26
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CDx plywood is typically labeled as sheathing, which is different than subflooring. WHat you want on a floor is something designed as subflooring. Sheathing is generally fine on an exterior wall because you're not walking on it, so the voids aren't a big deal.

Plus, subflooring must have either a T&G joint to keep the long edges aligned or have blocking installed along each long edge which sort of negates the savings of using square edged materials.

Those in the industry at least SHOULD know the difference. Now, whether they abide by it is another thing altogether. There's a big incentive to save a buck. In other places, longevity is a much larger priority...here, with our disposable society, short term, looks good for awhile until I tire of it is more the norm than something built to last eons.
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