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Old 07-23-2019, 01:40 AM   #1
RichieW13
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Kerdi Board to Drywall Transition

On the Kerdi website, for no access plumbing they show the middle piece of Styrofoam being popped out and set under the drain flange prior to setting the shower tray.

But for an accessible drain, they set the tray and then install the flange. This method looks easier.

Why doesn't the second method work for no access plumbing?
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:42 AM   #2
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because you don't have access to the pipe underneath?
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:57 AM   #3
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By watching the videos, both methods appear to just be setting the collar down on the ground. The only difference is one method has glue on the end of the pipe as you set it.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:08 AM   #4
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Richie, you can set your drain in any manner that makes you comfortable. You do not need access to the drain from below.

I recommend you make your sloped floor of deck mud so you can make it fit your shower footprint and drain location perfectly (as well as saving much dinero and having a better floor). In all my showers on SOG concrete I leave the floor bare until the ceiling and walls are installed, waterproofed, and tiled except for the bottom row. I then set the drain with the flange at least 3/4" above the concrete and pack the deck mud under the drain while forming the sloped floor.

Using the foam tray you could do much the same except come time to set your drain you would either remove the center piece and set it separately or you could cut the riser to height, install your tray, and then set your drain in position.

So long as you get the drain set correctly in your floor, be it foam or mud, it'll be fine no matter how you went about it.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:24 AM   #5
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Hi CX, I have a wood subfloor but still don't have sufficient access from underneath the subfloor to consider it an "accessible" drain.

I already have the Kerdi foam shower tray kit, so I'm gonna go with that method.

I'm just trying to understand what the difference is between setting the drain independent of the tray, like this: https://www.youtube.com/embed/tp1kDEDC17c?start=105

Or setting it through the tray, like this: https://www.youtube.com/embed/9SYPB4oUH0U?start=214
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:34 AM   #6
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I think the only difference might be that the newer shower trays (second video) with the Kerdi membrane already attached may not have the removable center piece. I honestly don't know, having never even seen one of the newer trays.

But I think the bottom line is that you can do it either way with the old tray and maybe even with the new tray.

Important thing is to get the drain level and firmly set onto the foam tray.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:40 AM   #7
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Thanks.

Yeah, the new tray does have the same removable center piece.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:09 AM   #8
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After thinking about it some more, I think I see the reason.

With no access plumbing, you need to be able to carefully set the drain flange in, to make sure you line it up with the existing plumbing, and get it pushed in and fully set. In order to do that, you need to be kneeling immediately above the drain hole.

If you try to do that with the tray in place, that means standing/kneeling on the untiled Kerdi tray, which I assume is a no no. So instead, you remove the center piece of the tray and install the drain before the pan, so you can be standing/kneeling on the subfloor instead.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:58 AM   #9
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Could be. Damaging those trays by just kneeling on them is only one of the reasons I recommend against their use.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:23 PM   #10
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I've never installed one either, but if I did, I'd save installing the tray for last.

Waterproof the walls, then set the tile on the walls beginning with the second row, using a ledger board.

Then set the tray and waterproof it, then the floor tile and first row on the walls. This will minimize the time spent on the tray, and reduce the chance of damaging it.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:35 PM   #11
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I don’t think it’s so much related to kneeling on the tray. Although I’d want to minimize that.

When there’s no plumbing access, if the drain is fully seated and glued on first then it can be gently pried up if needed to slide the tray’s center section underneath.

If you set the whole tray first, the riser height has to be exact. If the drain flange bottoms out on the tray before it’s fully seated, there’s no recourse.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:24 AM   #12
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One thing that can zing you is if the drain pipe is not fully supported. THen, when you try to push the drain onto it, the pipe flexes and you can't seat the drain properly. IN a worst case scenario, you could negate the proper slope on the trap arm, causing it to build up crud. Well, not fully seating the drain could cause a leak. My experience with their drains is that they do not have as much taper to them as a standard hub, so they slip on easier. In a standard fitting, you can't bottom out the pipe in the hub until you've added the cement. The cement essentially has solvents and dissolved plastics...it melts the plastic in the pipe and drain so it can be fully inserted. On the Kerdi drain, it's less tapered and you can tend to dry fit it...not true with most hubs on fittings. THat means to get a good seal, it should be bottomed out and a liberal coating of cement applied to both surfaces.
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:25 PM   #13
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Have any of you demoed a Kerdi board shower?

As I am installing my Kerdi board shower, I am thinking about how difficult this might be if I ever want to remodel the shower. I would imagine it's going to be difficult to remove all the screws once they are covered over with dry thinset.

So many of these building products are designed to last forever, but in practice many people want to change the look of their homes every 10 or 20 years.

Just curious if anybody has experience ripping these things out?
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:53 PM   #14
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I would much rather be tearing out a Kerdi shower than some of the other methods. That foam makes things a little big easier IMO.

If the tile is installed properly hardi board can be quite difficult. Also the old wire lath showers can really take some time.


When I am installing a shower the absolute last thing I am concerned about is the level of difficulty of the demo. I am trying to have the thing function as long as possible.
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Old 07-30-2019, 12:59 PM   #15
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Oh, I agree. I definitely want this thing to be able to last 50 years. But in the back of my mind, I always think "what if we want different tile in 5 years?"

Tearing out my existing fiberglass shower enclosure was pretty easy.

The best would be if there was a way to remove all the tile from the Kerdi, while keeping the Kerdi installed, intact and waterproof.
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