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Unread 07-26-2006, 07:54 PM   #1
mctile
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anti-fracture membrane--HELP

I am currently bidding a job that is 2700sqft of 18"x18" travretine on a brand new slab. I know I need to use a anti-fracture but I don't know what kind to use. I want to be competitive with my bid and at the same time want to use a product that will last. Ditra? Easymat? Redguard? This is my first time bidding a job this big and also my first time laying on a new slab. Any suggestions will be helpful.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 08:05 PM   #2
jay f
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I would probably use something like Ditra myself, BUT my first question would be, how flat is this slab, do I need a SLC?
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Unread 07-26-2006, 08:10 PM   #3
mctile
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the slab is flat and 8" thick. Don't think i'll need a slc.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 08:14 PM   #4
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Around here Mapei,Proflex,Protectowrap,are all about $1.00 ft.,but Ditra can be used on green slabs, if that's what you have.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 08:40 PM   #5
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I use alot of Redgard over slabs, mainly cause it trowels on and goes down fast. I normally will burn in a thin layer as I'm troweling and make it thicker as I back out.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 08:50 PM   #6
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My nsho, if the slab is new enough that you are unsure about vapor emissions do a vapor test. That said, I'd go with Ditra. Ditra will channel water vapor because it is not flat preventing hydrostatic pressure from building and provide an isolation membrane.

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Unread 07-26-2006, 09:06 PM   #7
Davy
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Good idea, I wouldn't use Redgard if there is still moisture in the slab.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 09:53 PM   #8
mctile
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How do I do a vapor test?
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Unread 07-26-2006, 10:26 PM   #9
doitright
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Hi Matthew

One way is to tape down some plastic, directly to the slab. See if you start getting condensation on the plastic.

Another way is to check with a moisture meter.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 10:32 PM   #10
mctile
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how long is the general wait time befire you will see condensation before you know. How much moisture? Is a little expected on a new slab or is a liitle too much.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 10:44 PM   #11
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How new is your new slab, Matthew?

The tape-the-plastic-sheet will generally show results in 24 hours, but two or three days is recommended if you're gonna use a sensitive glue on the floor.

Moisture meters will tell you the current condition of the slab, but no much about the volume of moisture that's migrating up through it.

You can buy a calcium chloride test kit (accurate measuring version of the ol' tape down the plastic system) to get a more accurate test. And there are other tests available.

You might be better off just using the Ditra to save a lot of time if you're in a hurry to get you a floor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-26-2006, 10:51 PM   #12
doitright
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Hi Matthew

If you put it on tonight, you'll know something by tomorrow.

Normally, we like to see slabs cure for 30 days before bonding to them. Some antifracture membranes are peel and stick, and require a primer (usually water based) bonded to the surface (wood or slab). If the concrete still contains high levels of moisture, this will dissolve the primer, and the bond will fail.

There are other types that bond directly to the surface out of the bucket, such as Red Guard. Same situation as above.

The Ditra is installed with thinset, and designed to allow moisture to pass into the waffle channels. Since it is bonded with thinset (a high quality thinset is best), the moisture won't affect the bond.
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Unread 07-27-2006, 12:13 AM   #13
mctile
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So it seems that the general opinion is to just use detra and test or no test I'll be fine.
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Unread 07-27-2006, 02:03 AM   #14
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Ditra can be safely applied the day after the concrete is poured. I've installed as soon as five days with Ditra over concrete..no hesitations.
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Unread 07-27-2006, 06:50 AM   #15
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FROM THE SCHLUTER SITE REGARDING DITRA:

Concrete

There are various challenges associated with the installation of hard surface coverings on concrete substrates. To begin, the coefficient of thermal expansion of concrete is close to twice that of ceramic tile. Additionally, tile contractors are often expected to install tile over young concrete (concrete cured less than 28 days). However, rigid surface coverings installed over young concrete are susceptible to damage as a result of shrinkage during curing. Pre-stresses/post-tensioned concrete slabs are also commonplace in today's construction environment. Although pre-stressing is used to help control deflections in concrete structures, these slabs are still subject to deformations caused by changes in moisture, temperature, and loading. Many concrete slabs on or below grade are subject to moisture migration, which can be problematic. Furthermore, these structures experience the same deformations as stated above.

Schluter®-DITRA's uncoupling function protects the ceramic or stone tile covering by neutralizing the differential movement stresses between the concrete substrate and the tile, thus eliminating the major cause of cracking and delaminating of the tiled surface.

Schluter®-DITRA's waterproofing ability not only protects the substrate from moisture and harmful substances, it also slows the drying of fresh concrete, reducing the chances of cracking and curing.

The free space beneath the Schluter®-DITRA matting provides a route for any residual moisture in the concrete slab to escape. This allows the installation of DITRA and the tile covering as soon as the slab can be walked upon. Vapor management is also essential for slabs subject to moisture migration.
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