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Unread 08-13-2021, 06:54 AM   #1
bgouin
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Preslope / Shower Drain Height

Hello folks,

I had torn out a fiberglass shower surround some time ago. The original plan was to use a fiberglass shower pan, but when trying to relocate the drain it turned out there was a joist dead center in the floor of the shower. This sent me down the path of building a shower pan from scratch and now that I am revisiting the project with fresh eyes it appears I have a few issues with the shower drain.

1) I mistakenly got a black ABS drain and "glued" to white PVC with the wrong glue. I am going to cut it out and replace with white PVC and the correct drain.

2) I screwed the flange direct to plywood substrate - I am looking for some advice on this one for when I go to put the replacement flange back in. Per Oatey and some of the other info I've seen they show the flanged screwed down direct to the substrate. It seems even with the proper flange this would only allow for +/- 1/4" thick preslope at the drain. From the posts I've seen here it sounds like a minimum thickness of 3/4" is recommended at the drain, and then the minimum upward slope of 1/4" per 12" to the perimeter.

When I go to install the new PVC drain, does it just need to be plumbed a 1/2" or so high from the substrate? In which case it won't actually screw down into the substrate?

I was going to put tar paper down and then lathe over to start the preslope (thickness pending), then PVC liner, CBU down into the pan (held 1/2" up from liner), then final mud plus shower curb, and then follow up with w/ Redguard on the walls. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on those steps but the drain/preslope height is throwing me through a loop.

Aside from that would there be any potential issues with waiting a few weeks to tile after the final bed goes in? Or does the tile really need to be installed shortly after?

Thank you
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Unread 08-13-2021, 09:16 AM   #2
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Use a Pro-Slope pre made pitch then install the membrane.
http://noblecompany.com/storage/docs...escription.pdf
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Unread 01-17-2022, 08:36 PM   #3
bgouin
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1x1 Mosaic Tile Assembly?

Hello all,

I am in the midst of a DIY bathroom remodel. The forum/webpage have been a huge help! I removed a fiberglass shower and replaced it with Kerdi over new drywall and Kerdi over a mud pan. Passed the flood test () and am ready to start removing the existing flooring / vanity / fixtures.

The current flooring is 3/4" 1x8 tongue and groove plank, 3/4" plywood, and linoleum on top. That height matches up with the wood flooring in the hallway adjacent. I did run numbers through the Deflecto and the deflection passed for ceramic tile. There is a separate bathroom existing that has ceramic tile that also matches the wood flooring height - longer unsupported span but not exactly sure what was done between the tongue and groove planks. I think that tile is at least from the 1980s if not originally from the 1960s and has held up well so I am fairly confident the new flooring in the upstairs bathroom will hold up as well given a short span.

My plan was to cut out the 3/4" plywood to bring it down to the original subloor and then add a new layer of 1/2" plywood to minimize the height (figured it would be easier to cut the plywood out rather than try to remove adhesive off the face). Originally I was looking to put Ditra on top of that but realized 1x1 mosaic tile may not work on account of the 2x2 minimum size requirement. I have seen a few threads that say it is possible to prefill the waffles in but generally sounds like that is not recommended on account of the tile size.

I have been digging through the forum and it sounds like there are 2 options at this point but would appreciate any advice on what might be the best course?:

A) Add new 1/2" plywood to existing subfloor, then add 1/4" CBU with thinset between plywood and CBU plus fasten 8" OC, then thinset and tile over

B) Add new 1/2" plywood to existing subfloor, then install Nobleseal CIS / TS, then thinset and tile over

Option A has materials locally available which is a plus. The room is only 8x5 so it's not that large but I suspect it would be a stretch to get the demo portion done (plus some plumbing), add the new plywood, and add the thinset + CBU in a day (giving it 24 hours to cure before starting tile).

Option B I would have to order the material online which is fine as I have time to accommodate the shipping. Reading through the install instructions it sounds like if EXT or 21 Noblebond is used you can then install tile the same day? That would be a big plus as far as sequencing goes. Floor height would also wind up being pretty close to the existing height / transition which I would prefer.

I am leaning towards option B at this point but wondering if there might be any other options I am missing? It seems like B would be less work overall and I am guessing about equal cost as well by the time you compare the CBU sheet & screws to the membrane & adhesive.

I am also trying to minimize the amount of time the toilet and vanity are out of commission so even though the CBU option may not add that much extra time labor wise it's possible the plumbing might be out for longer if I can't get tile down the same weekend.

Any insight is much appreciated!

Thank you
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Unread 01-17-2022, 08:50 PM   #4
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Welcome, Brian.

I've combined you with your original thread on this bathroom project. Sorry you apparently got pretty neglected on that initial post. We try to avoid that, but it happens. A moderator can give the thread a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.

Nothing wrong with your plan that I can see at a glance, except your assumption that you cannot tile over your CBU immediately after installing it. All the CBU manufacturers will approve working over those panels as soon as they are properly installed.

Whether that will actually allow you not to set and re-set the toilet a couple times is something I can't determine from out here. You will not be the first fella had to do a bit of that in a DIY bath remodel. Wax rings are pretty cheap. Labor's free.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-21-2022, 02:34 PM   #5
bgouin
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Thanks cx!

If I can start tiling immediately after CBU then maybe I will go that direction since I wouldn't have to deal with a roller rental in that case.

With the CBU option would I then just embed the alkali resistant mesh when going to lay down the tile thinset and tile?

Good point on the wax ring, thanks for that. I am realizing I may potentially need to move the toilet a couple of times in order to paint too as it is very closer to the back wall.

No worries on the original post it probably worked out for the best since the Kerdi ended up being a few less steps.

Thanks
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Unread 01-25-2022, 09:31 AM   #6
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I have settled on the CBU over plywood option but had a couple of quick questions on thinset. I have spent a solid chunk of time looking back through previous posts but just wanted to get a sanity check on the following?:

Hardibacker instructions appear to say either modified or unmodified is acceptable between the plywood and the CBU since it is just to ensure there are no voids.

On the Kerdi membrane I used All Set to install the membrane but don't have enough on hand to complete the tile. It sounds like the general consensus is that Versabond can be used over the Kerdi membrane to set the tile (although it voids Schluter's warranty).

There is one wall where the Schluter transitions to painted drywall that I am tiling over. Wall tile is 2x8 ceramic subway tile. Floor tile is 1x1 ceramic mosaic. Planning to rough up the paint but would prefer to use the same thin set here.

Based on the notes above is it acceptable to just use Versabond for all the thin set applications I need at this point? (Aside from Schluter warranty issue).

Mapei is available also but if Versabond fits the bill I will run with that.


Thanks again
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Unread 01-25-2022, 09:38 AM   #7
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Because of availability of tile installation products in my area, I would use Versabond for all the thinset mortar applications in your project, except that I might buy a bag of Custom Blend for bedding the CBU on the floor if I were feeling particularly cheep that day. See my warranty information below.

Not sure what "Schluter" you're transitioning from to your painted drywall, but whatever it is should be well outside the wet area if it's part of your shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-25-2022, 08:15 PM   #8
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Great thanks cx, in that case I will keep it simple and just use the Versabond throughout.

On the Schluter note I have Kerdi membrane installed on walls and floor over a mud pan base with the curb wrapped. The Kerdi runs right up to the window trim which is in line with outside edge of the curb (picture attached - shower head is on the near wall where Kerdi wraps outside corner).

Shower pan is about 3x3 plus the curb. I would like to eventually put a glass door in but for the immediate future was planning on a shower curtain in line with the inside edge of the curb.

On account of not having a solid door where the curb is, do you think I should extend the Kerdi out towards the baseboard below the window?

The Kerdi would then have to run over the painted drywall at that point (paint has been up for at least 5 years). I have some extra Kerdi material left over so it wouldn't be much work to put it up - just wasn't sure if that might be overkill or if there were issues putting the Kerdi over painted drywall?

Thanks
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Unread 01-25-2022, 09:06 PM   #9
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I would definitely recommend you waterproof at least a couple inches, three would be better, beyond the outside edge of the curb and extend that down to the floor to make a "tub leg," which I would also want tiled. Perhaps you could kill the top into the window stoop or apron.

You'll want to seriously rough-up the painted surface with some very course sandpaper, but you should be able to bond your Kerdi to the surface with a modified thinset mortar such as Versabond.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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