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Unread 10-03-2011, 01:59 PM   #1
Rhadley
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Rick's Bathrooom Re-do

I am getting ready to install the bottom shower drain flange and screw it to the plywood floor. I will lay down felt paper and then the metal lathe. Should the lathe run under the bottom drain flange? If it doesn't, and I screw the flange directly onto the plywood, the mud thickness at the flange will only be 1/4" thick. I think it needs to be about 1/2" thick.

Thanks for the help!
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Unread 10-03-2011, 04:02 PM   #2
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The world is somewhat divided on how high to mount the drain fitting. Some agree with you and attach it to the floor, some let it sit on the little nubs and others leave it a bit higher. All of those methods work. If you are trying to stay low, just cut the lath to butt against the flange, or even leave a bit of a gap so the mud will fully cover the edge of the lath. The deck mud may crumble there where it is so thin, if so, you can finish the preslope with a bit of thinset.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 07:35 AM   #3
Rhadley
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Actually, I was thinking it needed to be higher so the mud is thicker and stronger. If I raise it, should the lathe go underneath the flange? Or maybe I should just put thinset under it and cut the lathe to match the perimeter.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 08:27 AM   #4
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Sloping Subfloor-Will this work?

I am tiling an upstairs bathroom floor, and have a sloping issue when I lay the plywood on the joists. See attached sketch. My plan is to secure the plywood firmly and live with the slope since it is rather smooth and not a "dip". I can't level it or it will end up higher than the mating carpeted floor.

ALso, it used to have full-mudded tile with a layer of felt paper on the joists. Seems like that would be a good moisture barrier to have under the plywood. I have seen that you are supposed to thinset the plywood to the joist floor, but only the tops of the joists touch the plywood and the planks between the joists are not that strong.

Please see the sketch and comment.
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File Type: pdf Subfloor.pdf (104.3 KB, 220 views)
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Unread 10-04-2011, 08:57 AM   #5
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OK, if you are raising the drain higher, then you cut the lath tight to the drain fitting and pack in the deck mud.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 09:15 AM   #6
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1) Get rid of the tar paper. It was there to allow the previous mud to cure, to act as a clevage membrane, and to protect the wood for the water in the mud. You don't want it in your floor now.

2) I'd sand the joists down to the tops of the 1" planks, if they are 1/4" or less higher than the planks. Eliminate the gap between old and new subfloor, making your new subfloor that much stronger. Alternatively, you can use a 1/4" spacer, such as plywood or backerboard.

3) You do not thinset plywood to the subfloor. You thinset backerboard to the subfloor.

4) You didn't say what tile underlayment you are planning on using. Plywood isn't it.

5) If your floor is really curved as your drawing suggests, your diagonal layout (angled pattern) will be difficult to do without lippage. The floor needs to be flat-flat-flat. Slope is not an issue.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #7
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Thanks. I will take off the tar paper. The underlayment will be either 1/4 hardiboard or wonderboard.

What is the easiest way to sand? That will be a job. The gap is probably about 1/8", but the planks are not flat themselves and some curl flush to the joists.
What if I used smaller tiles? The old ones were 4.25 square and there was no noticable lippage.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 09:59 AM   #8
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A floor sander would do this pretty quickly.

Smaller tiles set in a straight pattern will hide the lippage better.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 11:00 AM   #9
Rhadley
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Houston is dry-what happens to tile when rains return?

I am tiling a 2nd story bathroom floor and installing a shower. I think the room has settled a bit due to our drought, and am concerned that when the rains come back it will adjust to normal and crack tiles.

Should I wait to install tile? Or is this not an issue?
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Unread 10-04-2011, 11:04 AM   #10
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If you waited until the rainy season and installed your tile, what would you do when it dried out again?

In areas like yours, you have to pay attention to movement. Caulke in corners, movement joints in the tilework, membranes, etc.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 11:23 AM   #11
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Welcome, Rhadley.

It'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered. We can give it a more generic title any time you'd like.

In Houston you should have been watering your foundation since back in June or so. You can replace your grass rather inexpensively, a damaged slab will cost you a bit more.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 12:16 PM   #12
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Sure, I can keep it all on 1 thread. (I've been on other forums that want questions broken up) This forum is great because you get fast responses!

I do water, but it is almost impossible to prevent some settling. Most years we get a wall crack or 2 that close up in the fall. This year is extraordinarily dry.
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Unread 10-04-2011, 12:18 PM   #13
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Yup, here, too.

It might be helpful if you'd put that geographical location in your User Profile. Sometimes makes a difference in the advice you're given hereabouts.
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Unread 10-15-2011, 07:45 AM   #14
Rhadley
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Subflooor Question

My daughter is now married off, so I am back on this project!

Regarding the floor joist preparation for plywood, does the deflecto assume there is no support between the joists? The Hardibacker guide says I need at least 5/8 thick plywood and L/360 for ceramic. I will use 23/32 and have L/1559 but the planks between the joists are not consistent in height so I will assume no support there. It appears to me that the floor meets Hardi's requirements, right?

I am a bit leary of sanding since I could see myself getting uneven in all sorts of directions. I included a photo of the floor before I started.
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Unread 10-15-2011, 10:31 AM   #15
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Richard, the only good way I can see to deal with what you have is to install another mud bed like you had before. You need a minimum of 3/4" thickness at the thinnest part to do that effectively.

If you want to proceed with the plywood, I'd recommend you at least spend a good deal of time with a belt sander and long (8 or 10-foot) straight edge and get those board edges all in something resembling a plane. Then adding the thickest plywood you can tolerate might make a usable floor.
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Regarding the floor joist preparation for plywood, does the deflecto assume there is no support between the joists?
Deflect knows nothing but dimension wood joists. Everything else gotta be considered outside the joist calculation.

And your joist deflection calculation sounds a bit optimistic. You sure you're using the correct information for that?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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