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Unread 10-09-2020, 02:41 AM   #1
rockyfan206
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Shower Re-tile with Window

I'm about to rip out the tiles in this shower and replace with new.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternate way to handle the window in this picture? I'm ok with re-doing it the same way but I'm just looking for alternate ideas.

In case it's relevant, the shower head is on the wall to the left of the window.

Thanks!
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Unread 10-09-2020, 05:37 AM   #2
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Hi Dan,

A lot will depend on the type of tile you use and what trims are available. Is the ledge below the window just a shelf? Could we get a pic of the entire wall?
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Unread 10-10-2020, 10:10 AM   #3
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Thanks John!
Here is a pic of the whole shower. Yes, that is just a shelf. We haven't chosen any tile yet, except that we want them to be white or white-ish so I'm open to any suggestions!

Some other information about the reno
I am doing the demo today and plan into install one of these two shower bases:
I am going to get rid of the bench so the shower pan will take the entire 60" length. I am hoping to install a 36" width pan so the shelf will be reduced. If that doesn't work out, I will install the 32" pan so it will be the same as the old one.
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Unread 10-10-2020, 10:14 AM   #4
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Here is a pic of the bench
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Unread 10-10-2020, 03:14 PM   #5
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What is it that you don't like about what you have now?. If it were me I would build out the walls on both sides, and probably top, and raise the shelf to be even with the window bottom. I would probably put a piece of granite in as the shelf instead of tile. Then you would have the wall on one plane and a nice deep granite shelf. Just my opinion though.....
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Unread 10-10-2020, 04:10 PM   #6
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That wall bump out for the shelf might be there only because of the pre-fab'd pan, or it could be hiding something in the wall. Ditto for the bench. While I rather like the shelf, I like 4 more inches of elbow room more. The bench at the end, away from the warm water, is nearly useless, IMO, except for maybe a foot rest while drying legs.
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Unread 10-10-2020, 06:02 PM   #7
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I'm guessing concrete stem wall and a basement, correct?

I'll also predict some problems with water proofing in any number of places. Raw edges of tile suggest the ACE method was employed (awww, close enough).

Once demo is done and we can see substrate and prior workmanship, I think we can better advise.
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Unread 10-11-2020, 11:25 AM   #8
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Here are the pics with the tile and densshield removed (looked like densshield underneath). I still need to demo the bench and it is built solid.

Surprisingly I didn't find any mold or rot underneath.

As the bathroom is on a slit-level, the portion below the window has concrete foundation. Thus the shelf has to stay. However, the bench can go.

My first issue: the length between studs after bench removed is 60 3/8". The pan I have is 59 7/8". Thus it looks like I have to fur out the studs to on one or both walls get the backerboard or whatever wall material I choose (haven't decided yet) to overlap the flanges. However, I have adjacent drywall I on both these walls that I need to transition to.

I did a bit of searching and found this thread: which suggests using a strip of 1/4" backerboard at the bottom, furred out and then use 1/2" everywhere else. Since I have 1/2" to make up altogether, I could do this on both walls and then have the backerboard flush with existing drywall. Any other solves?
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Unread 10-11-2020, 11:40 AM   #9
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Welcome back, Dan.

I think one obvious alternative would be to eliminate the pre-fabbed shower receptor and create your own tiled receptor to exactly fit your shower footprint and drain location (which would be moved to the center if not already there) regardless the presence or absence of either the bench or shelf wall. That would eliminate the concern for matching the adjacent room wallboards as well.

First thing I'd want to do at your current stage is remove the insulation below that window to ensure there are no surprises in there as other Dan has suggested in post #6.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-11-2020, 12:43 PM   #10
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Opening sounds typical for tub. Furring one or both walls should fix.

If you're using premade pan, I'm guessing drain will need to be moved for new one.

Out of curiosity, was there any surface waterproofing or moisture barrier under tile backer?
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Unread 10-11-2020, 05:20 PM   #11
rockyfan206
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Here is the final demo pic with the bench and shower pan removed.

I think I am going to go with a custom tiled pan to avoid having to fur out the studs and then figure out how to match the new wall flush with existing drywall. Also, it will allow me to maximize the available width which is 34" from window wall stud to existing floor tile. The 32" pan I bought has only has 24 3/8" usable inside space because of the two 3" thresholds on either side according to their spec-sheet.

So I am going to go research how to do these Kerdi shower pans next.

Let me write down some assumptions in case I got anything wrong.
  • The joists are 2x10 13' length. The subfloor is 5/8". According to Deflect-O-Lator, this is sufficient for ceramic (and porcelain?) tile
  • I am going for left drain under the shower head. To patch the hole in the center, since I have access to the framing underneath, I assume I can use 2x4 braces in between joists and then patch with 5/8" plywood. There is an existing hole on the left which must have been the original location. The hole is quite large and I will likely have to patch some of it with the same technique.
  • A bit off-topic for this forum but there is a hairline crack in the foundation under the window. It's probably been there for a long time (house built in '59) so I'm going to seal it before I put up the walls. Maybe I'll send a pic to a foundation guy to be sure.

And a couple of questions:
  1. Q1: Is there an easy way to build a lower profile threshold/curb than the ones Schulter sells? They are 4 1/2" wide and 6" tall - was hoping for something a bit thinner and lower profile. Unless there's a good reason for it being these dimensions that I'm not aware of!
  2. Q2: Can someone suggest ways to tile that shelf and window? I could do it the same way but I suspect there are ways to make it look more professional

Finally I just want to say a big thank-you to you kind folks; I found this forum 14 years ago when I did my first tiling project in a diff bathroom and I can't believe the same folks are still here answering questions and helping folks like me out! Thank-you!
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Unread 10-11-2020, 08:57 PM   #12
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I assume that's some kind of band joist under the shelf, so I imagine lowering shelf is not possible? The construction seems a little odd, is this crawl space under?

Are you thinking linear drain at end? If not I'd shoot for the middle or closer to it.

Since you're going to make a pan, you might consider furring in a couple inches on sides. Looks good and takes the transition out of the equation for the most part.

1. I really don't like the too-big curbs either. For the last few years, I've made curbs from 2" Kerdi Board on edge. Net thickness with tile in and out around 3". More often than not using Kerdi Board throughout.

2. I typically put a 3.5" engineered stone cap on and matched sills, seats shelves and the like with same material.

Here's an example of both stone cap and fur in.
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Unread 10-12-2020, 04:20 AM   #13
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Thanks for the ideas and pic Carbidetooth!

Re shelf: yeah I think you're right - it's a band joist so I can't lower that. Yes, there is a crawl space under this section of the split level.

Re: fur-in: Nice idea; I'll consider it. In my first tiling project, I used a Schulter metal Trim at the transition to drywall and we liked it. But this is another idea.

Re drain: I am thinking square point drain right now, but was also considering linear drain. I like the end drain because I dislike stepping on the drain in the middle, although it's a minor consideration. However, are there any tradeoffs? Why do you suggest middle?
  1. Curb - Great idea! Can you elaborate on this construction a bit? I'm having trouble picturing exactly how you cut the Kerdi board.
  2. Engineered stone - How do you get the stone to be all one piece like this (at least that's what I see from the pic). Is this something I can buy at a store and cut myself?
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Unread 10-12-2020, 08:18 AM   #14
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Curb is simpler than you might think. Typically a 4-4.5" rip from 2" Kerdi Board, 1/8" slope on top edge. Rough scribed to floor so top is level, glued in place with Kerdi Fix.

I sometimes Kerdi Fix'd a 3/16" "top", 1.75" wide on top leaving a void at edges. Kerdi fabric doesn't like to bend around sharp 90°, and this detail facilitated a roll around this corner. This could be accomplished other ways. One could laminate .5" K-Board to achieve thickness.

I found that 10" Kerdi band was perfect for wrapping this curb. Starting at floor outside shower, over the top and into shower floor, typically 3-4". I laid Kerdi floor piece last in sequence.

Stone fabricator for Quartz (engineered stone). Frequently vanity top, curb, niche shelf, bench top, etc. all from same material.

Concerning drain. Point drain at end, assuming level perimeter of pan, yields a peculiarly steep slope on close wall, which I find unacceptable. I've never had a client complain about standing on drain, particularly once they see how their new shower drains...whoosh!. I shoot for steeper than minimum slope...5/16"-3/8" per ft.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 08:17 AM   #15
rockyfan206
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Thanks for the extra info Carbidetooth.

For the curb, 2" thick kerdi board isn't readily available in Edmonton, Canada where I live so I'm thinking of using a 2x4 on it's side and wrap it in kerdi band. Do you think that will work? Since my floor is already tiled, I can't overlap the band onto the floor and will just have to caulk between the curb and floor. Edit: just found this youtube vid of a Shluter guy talking about making custom curbs out of various kerdi board scraps - looks like lots of options https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjVCINtrZ_c

I'm going to look and see what folks will fabricate stone for the window sills. If it's not something readily available or affordable, do you have any other ideas for these edges? Schluter metal trims maybe?
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