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Unread 11-04-2011, 10:17 PM   #1
Orion76
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Advice/Opinion on shower drain

Hello,

I have read these boards for some time and they have helped me along in the remodeling of my bathroom and have been very useful in my quest for finding a legitimate tile guy here in Raleigh to do my tile shower.

I would like to get some opinions on some work the contractor did to my shower drain. A plumber put in a new drain and the mortar pan/bed was laid. It turns out the wrong drain was installed. We wanted one with a screen to catch hair, etc. So the tile guy came back today and chiseled out some of the mortar around the drain, put in the new drain and then filled the hole back in with what i believe was more mortar. I know this will cause a "cold joint" and that is my concern. If i had know he was going to chip away this i would have just left the old drain. He doesn't seem concerned by this in that he will be putting another coat or two of Aqua defense on the floor and said this should help shore up/seal the cold joint. Does this sound legit or will i be running into problems down the road. I have included a pic.

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Joe
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Unread 11-05-2011, 09:06 AM   #2
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There is a divot method but I'm not sure if that's what you have or not. It's hard to say if you'll have problems without knowing how it is sealed down underneath the top strainer. The drain has to be sealed to the waterproofing down underneath, not at the strainer.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 11:21 AM   #3
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Hi Davy,

I am trying to follow what you are saying. In the pic where you see the grey. That was where he dug out to get the old drain out. He unscrewed the drain then threaded in a new one. So it isn't the piping it is just the top of the drain from what he says. I think he did not take out the mortar all the way to the pan liner just enough to unscrew the old drain. If i can get other pics once he removed the black cover i will. He put that on to keep debris out of the drain. He also put more aqua defense down today. Thanks for the feedback!
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Unread 11-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #4
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Joe~If he didn't go all the way down to the liner, you might be OK with it. Re-paint it with some more Aqua Defense and you're probably allright.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 04:59 PM   #5
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Thanks Lazarus! He said he did not touch the liner and went down just enough to unscrew the old drain and put the new one on. I had it lay down some extra aquadefense. Thanks for putting my mind at ease some. Appreciat it.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 05:23 PM   #6
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Okay, most of the time we just have one membrane, he has two. In other words, if we use a membrane like the Aqua Defense, we don't use a pan liner along with it or vice versa. To me, it's not twice as good. I don't like the idea of having two membranes. If moisture gets under the Aqua Defense, it will never dry out between the two membranes. In my opinion, it's best to have one membrane and trust it.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 06:12 PM   #7
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So it sounds like if moisture does get in there i may be ending up with a mold problem. At this point it sounds like i either have the whole pan redone or pray that no water penetrates it. So if you only have a liner on the bottom does the moisture escape through the top of the mortar? If you put aquad on the top of the mortar you allow the moisture to escape through the bottom or do you jsut hope that no moisture penetrates the aquad and that moisture escapes through the bottom of the pan onto the wood below?
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Unread 11-05-2011, 06:24 PM   #8
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originally posted by Davy
Quote:
I don't like the idea of having two membranes. If moisture gets under the Aqua Defense, it will never dry out between the two membranes. In my opinion, it's best to have one membrane and trust it.
Why wouldn't it dry out the same way it got in ?
I use a pan under the hydroban only as an insurance policy.
If the water proofing ever fails, the vinyl is a back up. Other than waterproofing failure I doubt the vinyl gets wet except close to the weep holes.
I know mine gets wet at the weep holes because I don't run my hydroban tight to the drain.

If there is a pan under the waterproofing and the waterproofing failed ,wouldn't gravity take the water down through the mud, and the sloped vinyl would take the water to the weep holes ?

How about the old flat lead pans ? Do they ever dry out ?
How about the millions of functioning showers with sloped vinyl pans , no waterproofing and porous mud ? Does that mud ever dry out when shower is used daily ?
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Unread 11-05-2011, 09:09 PM   #9
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I'm not saying it's going to be a mold problem, I'm just saying I trust my pan liner installation enough not to need a back up. Build one, build it right and trust it.

Just like a regular mud bed, as long as it gets replenished with more water, it won't get stagnant. But, what happens when the drain becomes partially stopped up with hair, etc? Water will back up the weepholes and get your mud bed wet between the layers of membrane. Are you telling me that it's going to all dry out thru the weep holes? I doubt it. Like I said, I doubt it would be a major problem since there really isn't much for mold to feed on in the cement. One membrane is designed to work if it's done right. In this situation, more isn't better, that's all I'm saying.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 09:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Why wouldn't it dry out the same way it got in ?
If water gets past the first layer, you won't know there is a problem until its too late. The water will saturate the mud bed until its fully saturated and will not dry out nearly as fast as the new water is coming down, due to gravity and the much higher concentration of new water coming in as liquid water, and the old water having to leave as water vapor.

Put a sponge in a nearly closed plastic bag and add a shotglass of water each day. Tell me how long it takes for the sponge to dry out.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 09:32 PM   #11
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Joe, do you know or not if the tileman put gravel or something down to block open the weep holes? If the weepholes are blocked closed with cement, it will take even longer to dry out when it gets wet between the membranes.
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Unread 11-05-2011, 11:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
originally Posted by Paul "If water gets past the first layer, you won't know there is a problem until its too late. The water will saturate the mud bed until its fully saturated and will not dry out nearly as fast as the new water is coming down, due to gravity and the much higher concentration of new water coming in as liquid water, and the old water having to leave as water vapor.

Put a sponge in a nearly closed plastic bag and add a shotglass of water each day. Tell me how long it takes for the sponge to dry out."
If water gets past the first layer if there is no sloped liner under, won't that also be a problem not known until too late ?

If the waterproofing failed, what could stop, or slow down the water on the liner from going to the drain on a sloped pan ?


If I put a drain and a vent on the bag with the sponge I believe it will dry out.
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Unread 11-06-2011, 07:16 AM   #13
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Davy, for the weep holes he put pebbles around them so they would not clog. The slop he has toward the drain is pretty good as well. This was something i was sure to check with him on. But one thing i see is the slope is not as great near the front walls of the shower. Shower is 5' L by 3' Wide. But it still has some slope from what i can see. Also the drain i have is meant to catch hair and can snap off to be cleaned regularly. I will just have to be more dilligent when i clean it to be sure no water is backed up anywhere. How long would it take a mud bed to fail if moisture is in there? Is there any typical time frame? I have attached the finished job with the aquad on it now.
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Unread 11-06-2011, 08:00 AM   #14
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Joe, it's not that the mud bed will fail. There isn't anything in cement for mold to thrive on but if enough body oils, shampoo, etc. gets trapped between the membranes, you could have a moldy or musty smell. I've seen this happen within a few months but could take much longer. It's good that he used pebbles over the weepholes.

Joe, did they put a cement slope under the bottom pan liner? Or is it sitting flat on the floor?
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Unread 11-06-2011, 08:10 AM   #15
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Davy, i don't recall if the membrane is slopped or not. I did not look at it well enough before the mud bed was put in. I will check with the tile guy to see what he says. I think i should be hoping that it is pre-sloped for water to exit through the weep holes.
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