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Old 06-18-2015, 04:31 PM   #1
kitcheneddy
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First Go at a Shower - pre planning

Regular tinkerer at home now thinking on replacing the old pre-fab shower to put in tile.
The spot is in the basement, below grade, on slab. Been trying to read through the ton of ideas and was hoping for a little feedback on my so far plans(that I am sure will all be dashed when I remove this thing).

1. Can I push deck mud into a form with thinset at the bottom for my curb start or should I use something more mortar with lime?

I plan to do the preslope/liner/mortar bed as most instruction show

2. What is the approximate suggested time to wait or what should I look for until I start a new layer of the work?

I will be using CBU for the walls

3. Is there a better in terms of liquid membrane on the front or 4mil liner on the back of the CBU? I am open to either whatever give me best protection. (follow up questions pending..)

Thanks for pondering this one.
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Old 06-18-2015, 04:54 PM   #2
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Welcome, Andy.

1. Find the Shower Construction section in our whirl-famous Liberry and the very first thread in there is about constructing shower curbs for traditional pan construction.

You an use wood or CMUs as the rough portion of the curb.

2. Sorry, don't understand the question. Layers of what?

3. I personally prefer the direct bonded waterproofing membranes for the walls unless doing a mud shower. I prefer the sheet-type membranes if doing the entire shower, but the liquid-applied are OK for the walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:41 PM   #3
kitcheneddy
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Thanks for the reply CX

1. Brick it will be as this is over a concrete slab. I was wondering if pouring in a form would be any better, but bricks seem a much easier faster method.

2. How long after laying the pre-slope can I step on it is what I mean. My times for doing this are going to be funky, so I am trying to plan how much to get done in a day.

3. I will go with the liquid membrane. A top to floor application to the thickness they say is all I need on the CBU?

I have yet to open this thing but one of the walls is touching the outside foundation wall. I can only assume there is some kind of stud between the wall and the pre-fab. That may be my next big issue, so more questions are likely coming.
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Old 06-18-2015, 06:11 PM   #4
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If you're going to be using a PVC liner on the floor with a preslope underneath, you can get a rapid setting concrete that will set up in a couple of hours. That way you can install the liner and cement board the same day.

You can do the same for the curb if you wish. Just make your forms from 2x6's, pour the concrete in, and pull the forms in a couple of hours.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:19 PM   #5
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If you go the rapid-set way, I'd practice with it first. For a beginner, it might set up on you too rapidly.
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Old 06-20-2015, 11:46 AM   #6
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My times dont need to be too quick, I think I can block enough time in the evening to get at least one layer of something done. If I can step on the pre slope after 18 hours I is my main hope, want to keep the progress rolling.

I may have some issues with what I now have exposed. Two of my walls are against the concrete foundation. There are some studs that I think one side I will be able to attache the CBU to but that leaves one of the walls with no anchor points. It is solid concrete and really smooth surface, being below grade are there any issue with using that surface?
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:08 PM   #7
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The problem with trying to use your concrete wall in the shower with a traditional shower pan is getting a waterproof membrane on that wall that will overlap your shower pan liner.

If you change to a direct bonded waterproofing membrane shower, I can see you being able to use the wall directly, but I'm still not entirely sure I'd recommend that. Can't see it from here, though.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:16 PM   #8
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Why would you not recommend the direct bonded? Can I use backer board attached to the cement walls? I did a bit more cleaning and inspection on the foundation walls and they are not going to work, I need to use another substrate anyway.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:36 PM   #9
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If you did it just right, Andy, it might work fine. But you'd need to be very careful where you tie the concrete wall into the other walls of the shower. I would recommend it only with a sheet-type membrane and I'd wanna be able to give it a little bit of a "wedgie" at those wall junctions to allow for some movement. And you'd first need to ascertain that the concrete wall was sufficiently flat and plumb for the application.

As for attaching CBU to the concrete wall, if you can find a CBU manufacturer who will approve that installation, that might be fine. Be sure to pack a lunch when you go looking for that manufacturer, though.

If you wanna put something there to make a new wall surface, I'd recommend one of the foam backer boards, such as Kerdi Board or Wedi Board.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-22-2015, 06:02 PM   #10
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Two of my walls are against the concrete.

one wall that has pipes is framed in and I am going to CBU that side. The other two sides are foundation walls that are not the best and I need to attach something to them. To get it all straight and clean would you suggest to attach lath to the concrete and mud the walls?
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Old 06-22-2015, 06:12 PM   #11
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You could do that. Or, if you can make the walls clean enough, you could bond your fat-mud directly to the concrete.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:09 PM   #12
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Are you saying I can bond the liner to the existing concrete and then fat mud the whole wall just enough to make it smooth and plumb down to the bottom edge of the shower? And I can do that without a lath?

The wall is very smooth and plum, just a few imperfections and I need a way to cover that pan liner without a sheet membrane is my main goal. I know everyone love kerdi, but I dont want to use it.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:50 PM   #13
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Nope, not saying that. If you plan a traditional shower pan, you'd need to attach a moisture barrier/cleavage membrane and lath lapped down over the pan liner and mud the whole wall.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:54 PM   #14
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Thanks a ton for the information!

For the lath do I need to put a roofing paper on the back as most installs are depicted if I plan to put RedGuard on the finished wall?

off to digging out the old drain...
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:59 AM   #15
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For the cleavage membrane can I use 4mil plastic sheeting ( I already have it) instead of the roofing paper?

Do I have to have the membrane back there, because I am going to do the liquid membrane waterproofing and would that create the moisture sandwich I read about?
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