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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:33 PM   #31
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I was thinking the same thing Kim, The only thing I have come up with so far is that when properly installed with thinset, the fleece is impregnated with cement crystals. That may keep the water from getting through the fleece.

That said, I don't think the fleece is thick enough on the K-board to allow more than droplets through at any time as the holes would be so small. The surface tension of water molecules should hold it within the fleece.



Still thinking
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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:44 PM   #32
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A two-inch overlap does render Kerdi-board waterproof, just like Kerdi. Through past experience with Kerdi we know we get a certain amount of penetration into the joint, but at the certain point (three-eighths or so) the water stops and won't go any farther, even under pressure. I think we'll find the same thing is true with Kerdi-board, and that's why I'm thinking the thicker panels will be okay with just Kerdi-fix.

The answer is no, there is no "problem" with Kerdi-board when installed according to specs -- Kerdi-band in wet areas.


As to the time it takes to waterproof Kerdi-board's screw penetrations, isn't the same true of Wedi penetrations?
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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:46 PM   #33
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I was thinking the same also..

whats up with that


at ctef schluter told me it was kerdi membrane.. i just never understood why it was on both sides
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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:50 PM   #34
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I beat you, Jeff. See my post above yours.
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Unread 07-14-2010, 08:53 PM   #35
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yeah u did
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Unread 07-14-2010, 10:04 PM   #36
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so why is it on both sides.

i remember asking this and i believe cx kelly was standing right there when i did ask, i just dont remember the answer or even if i got one
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Unread 07-14-2010, 10:23 PM   #37
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John B. On wedi you will have the same number of tab washers as Kerdi-board on any given surface. With Wedi tho you use $5 a STD tube or $9 a 20 oz sausage to dab each washer connector. Let's say you have a STD 5 ft shower wall 8' tall, it woul take me less than a minute to dab all washers/tabs and maybe 45 seconds to cover them with a 4" putty knife. Total time is 2 min. Effort -zero, cost about$1.00 in Wedi sealant/Sikaflex.

Alternative in Kerdi is at least 3 vertical columns of Kerdi band at $1/ft = $24. Or could cover tabs with K-fix at about $7.00 guesstimate.

Altho off topic, John, what K-band size do you recommend for K-board corners? Even if you put tab washers right against adjacent board each tab would be within a 1/2" of the edge of a5" K-band.
Need to get 7" K-band for corners?
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Unread 07-15-2010, 04:43 AM   #38
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Sorry if Im missing something-but water still shouldnt be getting through the fleece right ? Your box JB- if properly caulked and bonded with kerdi fix and allowed to dry should not leak, not through the board and fleece right?
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Unread 07-15-2010, 05:45 AM   #39
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You can "fix" the penetrations in Kerdi-board the same way you fix them in Wedi. You don't need Kerdi-band. Near the bottom of the shower, below the curb, I would use Kerdi-band. That's just my thinking at the moment. Shower walls are never going to have any pressure or standing water on them. It would be a different story if you were building a bath tub.

And I mentioned earlier that Paul's niche arrangement might not be a problem, either, except that niches can have standing water, and everybody is not going to dry them out. They could leak if they are getting a lot of spray simply because they contain horizontal surfaces. The little bit of pitch we give them won't run the water out; it will help in keeping it from pooling near the back of the niche, but the water will still lay there.

On Kerdi-board the fleece and membrane are on both sides so you can bond to either side. There is also a stiffener on both sides which improves rigidity -- it's what makes the thicker panels so resistant to bending. The membrane on Kerdi-board is not Kerdi-membrane. It's much thinner.

As I've mentioned before, the spec book hasn't been completely formulated on Kerdi-board, and innovation is strongly encouraged. But you should test your experiments thoroughly before putting them into practice. It is a very versatile material, but it's not a silver bullet.

The boxes made from thin panels of Kerdi-board and Kerdi-fix (or equal) will leak. I guarantee it.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 03:43 PM   #40
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I also use solid one piece sills that are 100% siliconed on 3 sides, so I don't think there will be a problem with that niche.

I made an improvement to the above method today and a discovery.I think its the foam that is waterproof and not the orange stuff covering it. When I made my modified niche today, and then filled it with hot water, I could easily see the orange layer getting soaked. After about an hour I had one tiny droplet formed at the base of one corner.Since I had kerdi fixed the cut corners, it was the folded seam that was leaking. Or so I thought. I dried that new niche in the 96ยบ Texas sun for a spell, then added k-fix to all the seams cut and the scored-and-snapped. When that was tested for an hour, it leaked at one corner too, a single tiny droplet which still clung to the niche. When that dries out I will make the k-fix wider at the cut and folded seams.

At this point I can clearly see that you'd have to seal ALL k-board seams, even the ones you score and snap if you want 100% waterproofness.

For some odd reason my computy isn't recongnizing my blackberry so I can't fetch the pictures right now. I'll have to wait until the new xanex application enables itself after rebooting.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 04:34 PM   #41
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Apparently it was my crackberry that was having issues.

I made a new k-board template where the side flaps tuck under the bottom flap and over the top flap. I think from the pics you'll get the idea. With this method, the jambs have a 4.5" overlap. It still leaked that one tiny drip.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 05:29 PM   #42
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Kevin, I am by no means a Kerdi board expert. Nobody has it locally. At the seminar I went to, I get the impression you can cut a square of kerdi-band for each of the washers, 5" square. That should save a bit on the membrane if you are not going all the way up. The only long bands to be used are the seams, and thanks to regular Kerdi, I have a little system in place for installing it. Also, you just have to have 2" of coverage at the puncture/seam point. If the washer compresses the board and does not puncture it, the only point you are trying to seal is the screw hole itself. Again, this is theory, I have yet to get my hands on it locally.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 06:16 PM   #43
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So the safest bet would be to construct a niche like you did in the first instance, Paul, then just apply thinset and Kerdi wherever there is a 90 degree bend. I'm just looking for a lightweight and easily fashioned niche and it looks like I'll be using the Durock/Kerdi combo for the bathroom so a little more Kerdi work won't kill me (I don't think).
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Unread 07-15-2010, 06:21 PM   #44
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Kim,

Tell us where you're at in Canada. It might be too cold for Kerdi, Kerdi-board and everything else we have. You might have to go without showering.

Paul, the membrane is waterproof. The scrim (fleece) is not.
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Unread 07-15-2010, 07:37 PM   #45
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John, I'm in Manitoba and aside from being probably the only province that doesn't carry Spectralock anywhere, we're not so unfortunate to have to go without Kerdi. It does get to -45 C around here in the winters but we stuff our walls with goose down so I think the Kerdi will be OK
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