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Unread 08-25-2009, 06:34 AM   #1
John K
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Spotting tiles on walls

Why is spotting or dotting tiles on walls not approved by the TCA? What are the problems associated with doing this method?
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Unread 08-25-2009, 06:53 AM   #2
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lol just answered on old thread in advice fourum.

spotting more times than not will not give you proper coverage. hollow spots next to globs. will it work and be ok on walls.....probably..... but after seeing other people use this method i prefer to just trowel both the tile and cbu for any build out
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Unread 08-25-2009, 07:59 AM   #3
Dan Kramer
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one reason not to do it is that it creates cavities behind the tile for things to grow. things that like wet dark areas.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 06:00 AM   #4
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Where is JB? John uses this method and never has had a problem.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 09:37 AM   #5
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Where is JB? I've been trying to ignore this thread. I've had my butt chewed many times about spotting

I do it on stone tiles and large ceramic tiles INDOORS. I stress indoors because I was chewed on by three tile forensic guys at Coverings over an outdoor job. Seems a contractor in SoCal did some building cladding and used the spot method. When the tiles started coming loose and trying to kill people he was sued.

As a defense, he introduced my book, Tile Your World, into evidence as an authoritative source (it is not an authoritative source). The forensics guys apparently didn't bother reading the book before they began chewing on me and wouldn't let me respond (they ganged up on me, actually). What they would have found, of course, is that the book doesn't even suggest using the spot method on the side of a building. Their parting words were, "your gonna get sued."

Well, maybe, but not for problems with a building exterior in SoCal.

If a shower is well done, well grouted, well waterproofed and well maintained, there is no reason why water should accumulate behind the tiles. I'm talking about a residential shower, now, that is not in continuous use 24/7. In a residential shower, what little moisture that might get into the grout evaporates back out, especially if the shower is hand dried after each use as I recommend. The exception would be a conventional mud bed shower floor, which will retain moisture no matter what in most cases, but we're not talking about floors.

I do all Kerdi showers now, but I used to use the spot method on mud showers, too. I suppose I've been doing it since large tiles became popular in showers -- I'm guessing 20 years or more. I have had occasion through the years to go back and check some of the showers I've built -- maybe for grouting or caulking or being called back to do another bathroom -- and (I almost hesitate to say this) I have only once discovered a problem. It was an exotic marble tile that had grown an outcropping right at the shower floor line. (traditional mud bed floor). This would have occurred whether the tiles had been spotted on or whether they had been completely bonded. The shower was not well maintained. Water stayed in the base of that shower and apparently fed the "tumor."

Other than that there have been no problems. I can't tell you how many showers I've done that way, but the number is more than 5.

I'm doing one right now over Kerdi-board in my own house.

Disclaimer: I do not recommend the spot method for floors or for exterior work.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 10:35 AM   #6
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spot bond, blob, glob etc.

read these my man

lots of info and some pics

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...highlight=glob

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=75258
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Unread 08-26-2009, 12:03 PM   #7
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well done well grouted and well waterproofed are all controllable by you as the installer. well maintained is a crap shoot at best. I am just trying to figure out why John K is so interested in the method . I havnt heard of any thinset or trowel shortages. and I am also not saying that it won't work I am just trying to figure out why not just trowel the wall. seems to me that getting full coverage will always be a better bond.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 12:11 PM   #8
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cain

it's about speed -- you can really cruise when you spot -- plus planing out large format stuff is way easier -- that said I stopped doing it because
of water intrusion and broadcast of the spots to the front of stone tiles.

Now, if you had a commercial space with a large wall in a non wet area
or a backsplash using porcellain -- no problem at all

I still do a mini version of it with 100 coverage just to plane out larger tiles.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 12:19 PM   #9
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I get ya Stephen. I guess thats the one plus about new construction taking a dive. Nobody yelling at me cause I am so slow.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 12:52 PM   #10
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The first time I ran into spotting was about 10-12 years ago. I ran into an off duty union tile setter and he was doing it. I wasn't so sure about it until I read Johns' book a few years back. I've spotted some showers since and I think its fine. I do run a continuous bead around the perimeter for good edge support and spot the middle.

You can make a nice wall out of a bad wall this way but personally I don't think its all that fast.

I wouldn't spot exterior with thinset though to my knowledge I believe it is done using epoxy. The union guy said he did it.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 02:08 PM   #11
tilelayer
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Did some repair work in a shower a couple months ago, it was 18x18 marble over wonderboard. Everything was spot bonded with huge dabs and every grout joint cracked. The install work was great everything was level and plumb and the floor was floated and they pitched the 18x18s to make the shower floor and it worked but all the wall work you could just pop the tiles off the wall the ones we needed to repair easily. We told the H/O the job needed to be redone.

Also laticrete supports the spot bond method with their 300 latapoxy adhesive??? How can they make that statement?
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Unread 08-26-2009, 02:23 PM   #12
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I'm not sure the cracked grout has something to do with the spot method.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 03:23 PM   #13
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laticrete

supports it in certain apps

my theory is they'll change that over time as more tearouts reveal
moisture intrusion and stinkynessnessness

at least for wet areas -- I still see it as viable for dry areas using porcelain

I think stone tile will be out as well over time as the discoloration issue
continues to fester

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Unread 08-26-2009, 04:02 PM   #14
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It's not a speed thing for me. In fact, I think it might be faster to spread thin set, blow and go.

I like to have my shower walls perfectly plumb and on plane no matter what the wall behind might look like. Spotting the tiles up allows for that. I use a long level (actually several levels) and straightedges at the tile goes up the wall. All my work is remodeling in production built houses.

No, it's not about speed. I'm probably the slowest guy here.
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Unread 08-26-2009, 04:07 PM   #15
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Ever get tired eyes? I saw the title of this thread and what registered in my brain was "Spotted owls on walls" I spot/dot set when ever needed, if I dont need to I dont do it. I wont hesitate to use the method though. I see nothing wrong with it on walls.
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