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Unread 03-20-2017, 02:12 AM   #1
mrkenneth
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Kerdi and Vinyl Retrofit Window over Aluminum Window

Hello! I have been reading this forum and attended a Schluter shower workshop in preparation of my first Kerdi shower.

My shower currently has a window on the wall perpendicular to the shower head. The window is 45"x15" and 6' above the floor so should not see too much water.

The window is currently a single-pane aluminum sliding window. I will be replacing it with a retrofit double-pane vinyl window that will go over the original aluminum frame.

How should the Kerdi-Band waterproofing membrane be affixed to the window? Should it be secured to the original aluminum frame or to the replacement vinyl frame in front?

Thank you for any advice!
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Unread 03-20-2017, 04:14 AM   #2
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kerdi_window

I'd recommend waterproofing (i.e. kerdi) your rough opening and then install your window. In my own home, I trimmed out my bathroom shower sliding vinyl window (5' above the tub) using pvc-wood (plastic wood) and then tiled up to and around the trim. Every few years, I'll pull the sliding windows out for cleaning and am surprised how virtually no mold or mildew settles there, but then I usually wipe down the shower after each use.

Basically, build your window frame similar to waterproofing a shower niche and then install your window. I'm sure there will be a few other recommendations from others to follow soon... Good luck!

Pictures would help though!
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Unread 03-20-2017, 08:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennah
The window is currently a single-pane aluminum sliding window. I will be replacing it with a retrofit double-pane vinyl window that will go over the original aluminum frame.
Not sure I get what you're doing there. New window assembly inside of existing frame? Sits on top of sheathing somehow?

Best would be to remove the existing window entirely. Is there something preventing that? Stucco maybe? Siding of almost any other type would be easier to repair, but I sure wouldn't want that old frame it there.
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Unread 03-22-2017, 08:02 PM   #4
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First off I would make sure that it's perfectly waterproofed on the outside of the window so nothing from the outside gets in.

Then it's your choice,

Kerdi on top of your wall board and put your window on it – sealing the joint with Kerdi fix, or Wedi sealant. keeping in mind that this is your primary waterproofing membrane sealant. And your silicone sealant that would go between your tile and window frame would be your top ( maintenance replaceable) sealant.

Or you could simply roll your Kerdi up the side of your window pane frame and seal that with Kerdi fix to the vinyl frame. Just high enough to stay hidden below your tile.

But that's me. Best bet is always to contact technical support for their recommendation Good luck.
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Unread 03-27-2017, 11:36 PM   #5
mrkenneth
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Thank you for the advice!

Yes, the existing aluminum window is nailed to the frame with stucco over it. The new vinyl window is placed inside the aluminum window frame after removing the existing glass. Attached is a photograph of the shower with the existing aluminum window.

Looks like Greg and Kevin suggest attaching the Kerdi waterproofing membrane to the outer aluminum flange before installing the new vinyl window. Would neutral-cure silicone seal Kerdi to aluminum or should I splurge for Kerdi-Fix?

Should the Kerdi wrap up the aluminum frame with sealant sandwiched in between?
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Unread 03-28-2017, 12:26 AM   #6
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if existing aluminum window is not leaking leaking, I would:
- remove existing drywall
- install new window. Follow manufacturer manual, except for not using foam.
- foam the opening, trim the excess foam flush with vinyl window frame
- check if wall is flat/plumb. If not use paper shims/planer. Tiling much easier.
- install drywall/cbu around the window so back side of drywall/cbu is flush with outer edge of window frame. I usually leave 1/16" space between window frame and cbu and fill it with Kerdi fix.
- insulate wall
- install drywall/cbu on window wall, be precise on cutting around new opening
- waterproof
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Unread 03-28-2017, 04:15 AM   #7
GregO
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aluminum window kerdi

Your sill and sides are the most vulnerable parts for water intrusion, so assuming you can't/won't remove the aluminum frame at all because of the exterior integrated siding/stucco, I would simply frame/shim the sill and sides (and even the header) flush with the aluminum edge openings. You're basically shrinking your window's rough opening which you already have done with a replacement window anyways.

So, if you're finishing with cement backerboard, it would end flush with the interior aluminum edge opening, and allow you to "wrap" kerdi onto and into your new window's "rough opening". Basically, imagine and treat the existing aluminum framing as your rough opening and waterproof it like you would any window installation, only using kerdi. Wrap the rough opening for water-proofing and then install your window.
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Unread 03-28-2017, 05:25 AM   #8
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I'd also slope the bottom of that window opening at the waterproofing layer so water doesn't stand on it.
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Unread 03-29-2017, 10:42 PM   #9
mrkenneth
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Thank you all for the suggestions!

The existing aluminum frame is only around 1/2" so I can easily screw on an extra layer of drywall. Greg, when you say wrap, do you mean sealing the Kerdi into the channel where the glass unit used to sit so water either flows into the shower or into the aluminum frame's weep holes and out?

The top of the window opening is half a foot above the shower head. Is it recommended to affixing Kerdi around the top of the window?

I just realized affixing Kerdi to the aluminum frame would mean screwing through the Kerdi when installing the new vinyl window. Just stuff silicone into the pre-drilled hole before screwing? Or avoid the penetrations altogether by affixing Kerdi to the new vinyl window frame?
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Unread 03-30-2017, 04:33 AM   #10
GregO
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kerdi window

What you propose, securing the kerdi into the channel to move water out via the weep holes should work given that:
1. very little water will end up there
2. there is a slight interior slope on the shower-side on your window sill combined with your kerdi going underneath your new window sill.

As long as there's slope to evacuate water wherever it lands and you're not relying on a caulked joint for waterproofing, you'll be fine.

Silicone or kerdi-fix will work for any needed drill-holes through your kerdi membrane.

The top of your window gives you options. I personally would still run the kerdi underneath the window header (as done on the sill; although technically it'd be atop of the header given its orientation). And then caulk that seam (mostly for "decoration" and to prevent any water intrusion). But abutting the kerdi to your window frame header and caulking that seam would work since it is not a landing spot for water.
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Unread 04-01-2017, 04:39 PM   #11
mrkenneth
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Thanks Greg for the clear explanation! I should receive the window in a week or so and will waterproof it per your suggestions.
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Unread 04-01-2017, 04:40 PM   #12
mrkenneth
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Question Kerdi on Galvanized Steel?

On a different topic, I will be installing a 12"x24" niche in an interior wall. The bedroom is behind the drywall in the niche. I am considering protecting the niche from future owners screwing into the drywall by adding a galvanized steel plate on the shower side behind the drywall, similar to a stud protector.

Would the Kerdi membrane and Mapei Kerabond thinset adhere directly to the 12"x24" galvanized steel plate? What is I add a piece of 1/8" hardboard (Masonite) panel? I want to avoid reducing the niche depth by adding a second layer of drywall.

Schematically, this are the options I am considering (in order of decreasing niche depth):
bedroom | 1/2" drywall | thinset | Kerdi | tile | shower
bedroom | 1/2" drywall | galvanized steel plate | thinset | Kerdi | tile | shower
bedroom | 1/2" drywall | galvanized steel plate | 1/8" hardboard | thinset | Kerdi | tile | shower
bedroom | 1/2" drywall | galvanized steel plate | 1/2" drywall | thinset | Kerdi | tile | shower
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Unread 04-01-2017, 08:49 PM   #13
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Kenneth, I recommend you simply waterproof your niche over the back of the existing drywall and that you be very careful when using any fasteners in the bedroom wall. You could also mention it to the next owners or you could just expect them to look on the other side of the wall in their new house to see if they''ll do any damage nailing up their big photo of Grandma.

You would need a very substantial steel plate (much thicker than a nail plate) to prevent damage were someone to try to drive a nail in the bedroom wall. If they tried really hard, even though their nail might not penetrate your plate it would likely still result in some damage to the tile installation on the back of the niche, even if you could get a good bond to the metal plate.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-02-2017, 01:05 AM   #14
mrkenneth
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Thanks Kelly! I will take your advice to be lazy this time.

Do any building codes address this issue?
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