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Unread 11-21-2020, 12:13 PM   #31
landersen
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Hi again!

I decided I didn't like the pony wall so I had a plumber re-route the plumbing that was contained within and now the wall is gone. My current design looks like the image below. I'm hoping (see questions) I can make a curb-less design but still have a shower door. I'm thinking of buying the Wedi Primo shower kit since I seriously do not want to make my own mud pan. So a couple questions.
  1. Is there anything from a code perspective that would make this a no-no? I live in a suburb of Seattle. This is a 60" x 36" shower, so I'm not sure if there is any code such as minimum size for a curbless shower.
  2. For waterproofing, I'm just going to use the Wedi panels on the outside of the shower as well. For the transition from the floor to the Wedi pan, would an overlapping layer of Wedi sealant suffice or should I do something like using a layer of the Wedi tape?

As usual, thanks again for all the help folks.
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Unread 11-22-2020, 08:28 AM   #32
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I can't imagine Seattle would care about the size of a curbless shower, Larry. I'd guess that, like here in Fairfax Va, the only concern is that it meets the minimum dimensions prescribed to all showers.

For the transition from shower floor to main floor I'd want something more robust than a bead of sealant.
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Unread 11-22-2020, 10:51 AM   #33
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A 60x36 is plenty fine for a shower size. I think Wedi wants their subliner dry sheet membrane to span that seam. You can get that at Master Wholesale by the foot.

Industry standard is to have the floor outside the shower waterproofed 12-inches, I believe.

So you're buying the 36x48 pan then building the bench next to it, I assume?
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Unread 11-23-2020, 04:00 PM   #34
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I'm building the bench out of wood and then using a 36x48 wedi pan for the shower base. Interestingly enough I found a couple of YouTube videos where all they used was the sealant between the shower and the main floor. That seemed a little fishy to me and thus why I asked the question. Definitely going to go the dry sheet membrane way.

Next question. How much tolerance do I have with the Wedi drain for having a not-quite vertical drain pipe? Of course, the plumbers didn't install the pipe in the correct location. Given how the o-ring system works, I'm a little concerned about that. Is there much in the way of wiggle-room?

Thanks.
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Unread 11-24-2020, 08:03 AM   #35
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There's very little wiggle room in those. You might try dry fitting it and installing the rubber seal just to see if you can get it to work before you get everything installed in there.

I find that if you fill up just the drain portion of the Wedi pan with a little bit of water that you will know quite quickly whether your seal works or not.

If you can't get it to seal, soap and water is another trick that might help. You'll have to take something like the handle of a hammer, stick it down the drain pipe, and see if you can wiggle the pipe enough to get the gasket to seat properly.

That's only if you don't have it lined up perfectly. When it's on the money it goes pretty easily.
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Unread 11-29-2020, 10:10 PM   #36
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Next question. I was watching some videos on-line and came across this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXXSzl6z2qs

This gentleman talks about "Multimax thinset" and mentions two things that he likes about it. Specifically the "open" time of 45 minutes and not needing to back-butter tiles.

Any thoughts from the pros' on here about "multi-max"?

Thanks.
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Unread 11-29-2020, 10:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landersen
This gentleman talks about "Multimax thinset" and mentions two things that he likes about it. Specifically the "open" time of 45 minutes and not needing to back-butter tiles.
Laticrete Multimax lite is a great mortar. It has a 40 minute open time and up to a 4 hour pot life. As for not back buttering the tiles, I'd think that has nothing to do with the mortar and more to do with what the back of the tile is like. If there is deep patterns I'd make sure to back butter them. Personally, I always back butter all tiles, with the exception of mosaics of course. It takes very little time to do and it improves the bonding. Just so we're clear, in back buttering, I'm talking about burning in mortar with the flat side of the trowel to completely cover the back of the tile, not back troweling where you actually comb mortar ridges onto the tile.
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Unread 11-29-2020, 11:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landersen
For waterproofing, I'm just going to use the Wedi panels on the outside of the shower as well. For the transition from the floor to the Wedi pan, would an overlapping layer of Wedi sealant suffice or should I do something like using a layer of the Wedi tape?
For a recessed installation using Wedi, you be looking at the Wedi Fundo Ligno. If you refer to the Wedi technical handbook, page 79 covers this question. Your Wedi approved options are to use Wedi subliner dry sheet membrane that overlaps into the Ligno base by 4" and 2" up the walls and then a minimum of 3' outside of the shower or however far water is expected to splash. In lieu of using subliner dry, you may also use Wedi building panels in thicknesses of 1/4", 1/2", or 3/4" as your flooring underlayment that you'd tie into the Ligno channel. There are other considerations when using the panels (raising the Ligno base a bit). If you end up going with the subliner dry route, you need to using their sealant 620 to seal the subliner dry to the Ligno base and wall panels. This is NOT the same as the standard Wedi joint sealant, which is also know as Wedi sealant 610. I highly recommend you thoroughly read the Wedi technical handbook and familiarize yourself with all of the details.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 12:15 AM   #39
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Thanks for the helpful info Big Phil.

For reference, the grey in the screenshot is Wedi material.

So the good news is, I am working on an elevated surface for the main bathroom floor. Because of this, I am able to use the Fundo Primo pan because the shower area is recessed. I was able to get everything lined up such that I can use the Wedi 1/4" building panel on the main floor and the height matches perfectly with the shower pan (see pic). The edge of the pan has the 1/2" notch from the factory, so I am assuming I can fill that with sealant and then overlay the wedi panel on top? So then, assuming the wedi building panels and the Fundo Primo pan, can I use the Wedi tape across them both?

Thanks.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 12:31 AM   #40
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You wouldn't need to use any mesh tape or membrane sealing tape when using the building panels to join the Primo base, just regular Wedi joint sealant. A 1/2" bead in the joint before the panels are joined, and then another 1/2" bead on top of the joint spread flat. I prefer using a 4" drywall taping knife to spread the sealant. You're looking for 1/16" of sealant build up on the seams. As for using the 1/4" board for that joint...I don't really get it as the channel is 1/2" and if it were me, I'd rather have it fully locked with a 1/2" panel. I think it may be in your best interest to reach out the the Northwest Wedi rep and get clarification on that. Your proposed picture seems like what the Ligno instructions say is ok, but it kind of goes against the usual recommendation for Wedi installation methods with fully locked panels...not a 1/4" gap filled with sealant. I'd be curious to hear what the rep says for that situation.

Edit: after looking at the technical handbook again, for Ligno bases (and I would think this would apply to all bases used in this method) it says that the shower base panel channel must fully stick out from the recessed area. So by doing that, you'd need to use 1/2" building panels to perfectly match. The difference being that the Ligno bases are only 3/4" thick and the Primo is quite a bit thicker at 1 1/2"-2" at the perimeter.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 09:39 PM   #41
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Just so I'm clear. What you are saying is that I effectively need to raise my showerbase and use 1/2" panels on the main bathroom floor as shown in this pic, correct?

That sucks, lol. It's going to make the main shower floor higher than I want which means I have to deal with a threshold issue from the bathroom into the main living area.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 09:48 PM   #42
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Next question..

I'm looking at the following tile pattern for the showerbase. Are there any pro suggestions for getting the angles cut correctly given the slope of the showerpan? If this was a flat surface it would be easy to draw the cuts needed on the tile, but if I did that, then when I laid the cut tile in the showerbase the grout lines would get wider as they approached the drain, correct? Would it be enough of an issue to notice?

Thoughts?
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Unread 11-30-2020, 09:58 PM   #43
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Yes, that second pic looks correct. The only other method would be to have the Primo base flush with the main floor and then tie it together with their subliner dry membrane. So in your first pic, you'd need to fill the channel with a strip of Wedi building panel instead of that 1/4" of sealant and 1/4" building panel. Now if you can't get your base low enough to do that, I'd recommend reaching out to the local Wedi rep and see if it would be ok to use a 1/4" strip of building panel in the channel and then finish it off with the 1/4" building panel on the floor (going by your first pic). Hope that makes sense.
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Unread 11-30-2020, 11:30 PM   #44
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Totally makes sense. Now off to find my local Wedi rep!

Thank you for the sage advice.
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Unread 12-02-2020, 05:15 PM   #45
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Ok, so I am at the point where I am able to dry fit the pan. Here is what the drain pipe looks like. As you can see, not exactly straight, but is it off enough to where I should get the plumber back out to fix?

Let's say I'm able to get the gasket to set properly and the water test is successful, are there any long term implications of the gasket being unduly stressed or coming loose in one direction that could cause water leakage in the future?

Thoughts?
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