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Unread 08-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #1
sri
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Gut and remodel masterbath with curbless shower

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the long post below but I thought I'd be as detailed as possible right from the begining. I've been lurking and reading these boards for months while planing my masterbath remodel. Unfortunately the more I read, the more options become availabe for doing everything and ends up becoming very confusing. Or perhaps I'm suffering from paralysis by analysis. So I've decided to post my project and get some advise. I have to do this mostly on my own except where absolutely necessary due to budget constraints. I've never tiled before but I'm quite handy. Please refer to the 5'x12' bath in the attached file.

Project:
  • 5' x 12' masterbath including 5' x 3' curbless shower (no bath tub), over an unconditioned garage
  • Subfloor is 3/4" plywood, 16" OC joists running length wise. I have accesss to sister the joists
  • 1/8" Floor warming cables by HeatTech in entire bathroom including shower
  • 12" x 24" x 0.35" (approx. 3/8") porcelain tiles
  • Planned floor installation: Heating cable >> SLC >> Thinset >> Ditra >> Thinset >> Tile
  • The shower stall will be waterproofed with a painted membrane - RedGard or Hydroban (not using Kerdi or similar) extending 12" into the non-wet area. Shower will be prepped for future steam shower. I plan on following the directions here: Mr. Money Mustache (mrmoneymustache.com/2012/12/21/how-to-make-a-relatively-sweet-shower-cheap/)
  • 60" Linear drain, ProLine by QuickDrain, against shower wall opposite glass entry wall\door. Drain installed flush with subfloor with 2% rise to entry
  • Surface mounted shower panel
  • Master bedroom floor height is 3/4" (I'd prefer the bathroom to be flush with it)
  • Minor corrections to the floor plan: Entry door is a pocket door, shower entry swing out glass door and glass panel, shower panel is on the long wall 24" from the right wall

My questions:
  1. How do I install the bath tile flush with the bedroom hardwood floor (3/4")? All the calculations I have done using the installation method above puts the bath floor at a minimum of 15/16". The assumption here is 1/4" SLC + 1/8" Ditra + 3/16" thinset +3/8 tile. How can I shave off an additional 3/16"?
  2. Can I tile directly to the SLC or is there a substitute for Ditra without the 1/8" buildup?
  3. Do I have to use a lath (e.g. Mapelath) with the SLC? How thick is the Mapelath?
That is the question that is currently preventing me from moving ahead with the project so any help is greatly appreciated. I'm sure I will have many more questions as I progress. Thank you all very much for this great resource.

Regards,
-Sri
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Last edited by sri; 08-17-2013 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Correcting items in the floor plan.
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Unread 08-17-2013, 08:26 PM   #2
chuck stevenson
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Welcome Sri,

Have you checked your joist structure using "Deflecto" in the dark blue banner above?

Builders often label space over a garage a "bonus room", meant for light storage or a living space but not much more.
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Unread 08-17-2013, 10:35 PM   #3
sri
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Hi Chuck,

I did check Deflecto. It passes if I sister the joists and I plan to do that. The space is actually the current masterbath and the adjoining walk-in closet. We've combined them to make a slightly larger MB. Actually I have a full unfinished basement and the garage is a part of it.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:55 AM   #4
MDtile
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Is it possible to omit the SLC and set the Ditra directly over the heating cable? Excuse me if this is technically wrong, I generally am not involved with Ditra, preferring Latacrete's new Strata Mat.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #5
John Bridge
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Hi Sri,

When using Ditra the order is wood, heat mats, thinset, Ditra, tile. I think this would also apply to heating wires.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 12:33 PM   #6
sri
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Thanks for the response John. That was the order in which I was going to install. However, my question is how to match the 3/4" floor height in the master bedroom. It seems that I'm going to be 3/16" over on the tile side.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 11:24 PM   #7
sri
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Solved the problem with the floor height difference. I'm going to be using RPM mats for the radiant cables and this will replace the Ditra layer. So 5/16" RPM mat and cable filled with SLC, then RedGard or HydroBan, then thinset and tile should keep me at 3/4". If anyone has any experience or tips for using the RPM mats for radiant heat cable, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
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Last edited by sri; 08-24-2013 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Added question.
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Unread 08-24-2013, 11:33 PM   #8
sri
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Water supply line size to shower panel

I will be using a shower panel (not picked one out yet) with multiple functions instead of individiual assemblies for the shower. The inlets on the shower panel are normally 1/2". I have 3/4" PEX for the main supply line. Should I run 3/4" PEX (about 5 feet) to the shower panel (witha reducer before the panel) so that I can have decent volume with several functions running simultaneously? Or is that short run insignificant or is this thsi unnecessary since the shower panel is all 1/2"? Thanks.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 08:52 AM   #9
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I wouldn't worry about that last five feet, Sri , I'd run whatever is most convenient at the time.

Chances are your PEX tubing and fittings are of substantially smaller ID than copper or iron pipe and you'll have reduced flows anyway, but reducing from "nominal" three-quarters to nominal half-inch five feet further up the line isn't likely to be noticeable.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2013, 12:39 AM   #10
sri
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Is it advisable to drill pipe holes after installing tile?

I am thinking of drilling holes for my water supply lines in the shower wall for the shower panel after waterproofing and tiling since I have access to the exposed wall on the other side to run the lines. Also I will have more control of the position of the holes in the tile this way. Is this advisable? Or should I just make a best guess and install the nipples first? I guess on drawback is that I won't be able to waterproof the pipe holes behind the tile if I tile first. Thanks.
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Unread 09-20-2013, 04:40 PM   #11
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Hi Sri,

I just looked at your original post and I have some concerns about the plan.

You mention that you are going to prep the shower to be a future steam shower and that you want to waterproof the shower with a liquid membrane. If it's going to be a steam shower I would advise not using a liquid and instead switching to a sheet membrane such as Kerdi or Nobleseal TS to name but two. The liquids just don't have the vapor protection needed for a steam shower.

The other thing is that in the link that you mentioned, How to make a relatively sweet shower for cheap, I can't figure out what the guy did for a drain. Maybe some of the other guys on here can take a look. It doesn't look like a regular 3 piece drain and he didn't use a divot. If the drain isn't correct I would advise you to follow a different method, maybe like this one with a proper shower drain.

Looks like a fun project, though.
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Unread 09-20-2013, 08:24 PM   #12
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Sri, I'd abandon the idea of plumbing your walls after your shower is tiled. But it's your shower.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 09-20-2013, 10:00 PM   #13
sri
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Is it advisable to drill pipe holes after installing tile?

CX,

Could you please expand on why it's not advisable to plumb after tiling? Is it a waterproofing issue? Thanks.

-Sri
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Unread 09-20-2013, 11:30 PM   #14
sri
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Gut and remodel masterbath with curbless shower

Jim,

Thank you for your observations. I palnned to follow the directions in the Money Moustache blog to build the shower pan except i will be using the ProLine linear drain by QuickDrain. So the slope is only in one direction to the drain. The drain has a sheet membrane attached to the flange. The sheet will be overlapped with the liquid membrane.

I suppose I might have to reconsider using a liquid membrane if it does not meet the perm requiremets for vapor retardation. Anyone else have an opinion about this with regard to cost to apply sufficient coats of a liquid membrane to achieve the same perm rating as Kerdi DS for example? I was considering a liquid membrane mainly for cost and ease of applicaiton.
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Unread 09-21-2013, 08:09 AM   #15
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Sri, it can't be done. The liquids can't compete with the sheet membranes as far as vapor perm ratings go.

I forgot that you were using a linear drain. Since you'll probably end up going with a sheet membrane it might be a good idea to explore the linear drains that come with that particular system for example the Schluter Kerdi-line drain or Noble Freestyle linear drain.
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