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Unread 04-17-2013, 03:58 PM   #1
Bodie Powers
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Shame on Congress

Couldn't even pass a watered down bill requiring background checks to make sure criminals and the mentally ill are prevented from buying guns despite the fact that 90% of Americans favored this bill. 90% of Republican senators voted "no".
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Unread 04-17-2013, 04:17 PM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
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Without taking sides: Can I ask where the fact that "90% of Americans favored this bill" is from?
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Unread 04-17-2013, 04:41 PM   #3
tileguynky
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Last time I check there was already a law in place for new guns. Most of the recent incidents have discussed the guns being bought new, so what would make this bill stop those that are already buying new guns for these acts? Perhaps the current administration could issue an executive order to the Justice Department to enforce the law that is already on the books.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #4
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Background checks on the mentally ill? You're kidding. They want to regulate private sales Bodie. For starters. Nothing else. Last poll I saw says only 4% of Americans believe this is even an issue.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 04:55 PM   #5
Bodie Powers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool Guy - Kg
Without taking sides: Can I ask where the fact that "90% of Americans favored this bill" is from?
Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. It is highly regarded by conservative and liberal media, but I encourage you to do your own research on the Institute.

"Quinnipiac's Polling Institute receives national recognition for its independent surveys of residents throughout the United States. It conducts public opinion polls on politics and public policy as a public service as well as for academic research. The poll has been cited by major news outlets throughout North America and Europe, including The Washington Post, Fox News, USA Today, The New York Times, CNN, and Reuters." (source: wikipedia including references)

In households with a gun, 91% favored stricter background checks (source: Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9160LW20130207)
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Unread 04-17-2013, 04:57 PM   #6
Bodie Powers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
Last poll I saw says only 4% of Americans believe this is even an issue.
Please provide your source or a link.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 05:18 PM   #7
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I looked at the quinipiac poll and the only poll I saw says 90+% agree with backgroung checks at gunshows. Nothing about mentally ill or criminals. There are already background checks at gun shows. Every dealer at a gun show does background checks. The only way to buy a gun at a gun show without a background check is thru a private seller. You cannot buy a gun online without a background check. Criminals buy guns from criminals. They don't get background checks and never will no matter how many laws are written. Again. They want to regulate ALL private sales of law abiding citizens. Do you seriously think more laws will stop criminals from finding guns. Take a look at Mexico.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #8
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Bodie Powers, It appears to me that gun manufactures have neutralized your federal politicians altogether in both parties so you have to start somewhere else where it is easier to establish a common ground.

I suggest that you Americans in states that have tendency to support better gun control laws to get together and establish a block and define strict and seamless gun laws within that block. You may be able to use trade relationships to make deals with other states and increase the size of the block little by little.

When you see strong reaction against sensible ideas, it is all about money and not politics, second amendment or freedom. Private sale of guns are very profitable for gun manufacturers because they can not be traced so they can sell as much as they like as long as they can find customers. In Canada there is a well known legal case related to tobacco sales where companies were pretending to be selling cigarettes to US buyers but they were really smuggling it back through borders back to Canada in order to bypass taxes on cigarettes in order to increase their profit. These were giant cigarette companies and not some small operation, so I would guess that gun manufacturers operate along the same lines and they are trying to prevent laws that halt their private sales of guns. This is what it is all about... money.. and money buys politicians and designer propaganda much better in your country than ours...
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Unread 04-17-2013, 05:59 PM   #9
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I count the defeat as a win. I don't believe that 90 percent of Americans favored the bill. I also do not believe the "gun lobby" lied to the people as Obama alleged today. The bill would not have made it through the House. That it didn't even make it through the Democrat controlled Senate says something. It's the best piece of good news we've had lately. "The people," through their representatives, have spoken.

Tesa, Take a break. Find another cause.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 06:02 PM   #10
Bodie Powers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
Every dealer at a gun show does background checks.
Strictly speaking, yes all firearm dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do background checks at gunshows. The issue is that, according to tha ATF, only 50-75% of dealers at a given gun show are FFL licensed. The other 25-50% of the vendors that are not licensed are not required to do a background check.

I'm a gun owner and I do not favor guns being sold legally or otherwise to violent criminals or the severely mentally ill. If expanding background checks reduces gun sales to those individiuals then I'm in favor.

Exactly what is your objection to expanding background checks to include non-FFL dealers?
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Unread 04-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #11
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Tesa, the private gun sales the folks above are talking about have nothing at all to do with gun manufacturers. Gun manufacturers are not involved in private gun sales. Private gun sales are those between private citizens. I sell you a gun, you buy a gun from me. Private sale has taken place.

If, as in your imagined scenario, the gun manufacturers had the politicians in their pockets we wouldn't have all the ridiculous gun laws that are currently in place. I certainly wish you were correct about that.

Bottom line for most of us down here is that if we lose the constitutional protection of the Second Amendment we have lost our constitutional form of government. To a greater extent than we have currently lost it, of course.

We like our right to keep and bear arms in large part because so many of our elected officials want to deny us that right.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #12
jgleason
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I'm not sure how a background check is going to snag a severely mentally ill person. Unless you mean the background check will search all of the medical records for the person being checked. Medical information is protected by privacy laws that have been enacted over the years by Democrat and Republican alike.

The Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-hui Cho, managed to pass two background checks and shot a bunch of folks in one of those wonderful "gun free" zones.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #13
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cx, you are not being naive intentionally, are you! because you are a very smart man otherwise.

If one avoids getting a sales license, one will become a private gun seller and there is no tracing and there is far less scrutiny. To move guns, the dealers would be looking for strategies to move the older guns through trade ins and selling them through their other private hand. When the market starts getting bloated with oversupply , guns will start leaking through the borders to other countries and other strategies set in to move the guns through the borders. They will use any strategy to flush the old stock to sell the new stock.

Remember your housing boom and the mortgage crisis, why do you think it happened. It all started because the bankers have devised a strategy to constantly move the entry housing stock and as long as they could maintain buying activity at entry level, they could move the more expensive housing stock vertically. Car industry uses the same strategy to move cars by taking trade ins and sometimes exporting the older stock.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 07:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesa
When the market starts getting bloated with oversupply , guns will start leaking through the borders to other countries and other strategies set in to move the guns through the borders.
Talk about naive. When the market gets bloated here in the US the citizens elect a politician who hates the constitution and the 2nd amendment and wallah! the market supply is not bloated. Other strategies for moving guns thru the borders? Can you say ATF DOJ and Fast and Furious? It's all politics Tesa.
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Unread 04-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #15
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Drill into the poll and you get that Quinapiac did a poll in January that polled VA, PA and NJ only

And the one Reuters big news blast in the article covered 1,000 Florida-only people.

Try polling only Texas and give those results as to how "America" voted

I heard Obama's sputting speach of vindictive diatribes where he used the 90% figure. New it would be parroted by the left with reckless abandon.
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