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Unread 02-22-2013, 06:47 AM   #136
Dave Gobis
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Been being discussed and tested for several years already at TCNA.

I would add that creating recommendations and standards does mean anyone will follow them. I remain unconvinced that at this point 3.5 and 5mm can be installed on a regular basis with reasonable and customary methods on a floor. We also need product standards to make labor recommedations and standards. There are three primary ways these are made which affects things. This has been one of tileaz's projects in a big way. As a matter of fact there was a big meeting this week. These are in your future, no getting around it.
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Unread 02-22-2013, 09:06 AM   #137
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The glass guys may want to do it, but they'll have to make some additions to their tool kit and learn how to make floors flat. Also, porcelain is not glass.

In the old days stone fabricators (marble setters) would be all over this stuff, but none of them know how to use anything but caulking/adhesive and spacers anymore. Thinset is alien to most modern fabricators, and mud is unheard of. There are no more "marble setters" unless they are also tile setters.

So I think Gobis has it right. It's in your future.
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Unread 02-22-2013, 11:14 AM   #138
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I believe that this is a great opportunity. Like Dave said, there is no doubt that this will be in your future. The glass guys will not have the know how as the talented tile/stone installers, it is not for everybody, but i think with good techniques,methods,setting materials and properly prepped floors and walls, could be actually being fun and an opportunity to gain a big chunk of market that we lost to the fiberglass and poor installs. More likely the solution to install this porcelains tin slabs will come from the States aka NTCA, TCNA.So far the Italians and Spanish setting techniques are lacking in my opinion,and not installer friendly.

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Unread 02-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #139
chuck stevenson
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As a contractor that specializes in millwork and cabinets I do occasional tile work on some of my jobs. This is an interesting product being discussed. I was certified as a Dupont Corian fabricator as well as Wilsonart's Gibraltar in the 80s. Other manufacturers came out with similar products. These also look like Corian, but differ in their chemical make-up. Nevamar's Fountainhead, Formica's Sorrell and Avenite's Avenite are a polyester/acrylic mix rather that the pure acrylic used by Corian and Wilsonart.

Long story short Wilson Art introduced SSV. Solid Surface Veneer in the mid 90s. It was 1/8" thick or 3.175mm. It was to be an alternative to 1/2 & 3/4" solid surface materials. It was taken off the market in 2002 by Wilsonart.

"Notice to individuals who own Solid Surface Veneer (“SSV”), an 1/8” acrylic solid surfacing material sold by Wilsonart International, Inc., installed in residential applications

A settlement has been approved in a class action lawsuit filed on behalf of residential end-users who have purchased and installed SSV and have sustained cracking or delamination during the 10-year warranty period extended by Wilsonart. If you have experienced cracking and/or delamination of the SSV during any part of your warranty period and have not executed a release of claim with Wilsonart, you may be entitled to receive benefits pursuant to the settlement described on this site. Wilsonart denies liability and no court has found Wilsonart liable for any wrongdoing in this case.

The Order and Final Judgment and Stipulation of Settlement will explain the settlement and the benefits it provides. To read these documents, learn how to identify SSV, how to submit a claim, and review Frequently Asked Questions, click the links in the upper left.

A toll-free number for claims has also been established: 1-877-537-0533."

http://www.wilsonartssvsettlement.com/

I wonder how these thin "Sheets" will hold up. Maybe the mesh back helps.
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Last edited by chuck stevenson; 02-22-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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Unread 02-22-2013, 03:02 PM   #140
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I haven't seen these products first hand, but from what I'm seeing in this thread, it looks like something that has a better chance of catching on in the commercial world than residential.

I guess you could do a whole shower with a just a few pieces to get that "Holiday Inn" look if you wanted though...

My take is the glass guys can have it and I'll stick to TILE.
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Unread 02-22-2013, 08:33 PM   #141
tileguynky
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I know the presentation I was at 2 weeks ago was to let some of those on the various committees regarding installation standards. I do believe that since that session, some things have changed and are going to slow down a little bit. There was a nice round table discussion that I had the chance to sit in on and found it quite interesting.

I also see this as starting off in the commercial world. However, the Italian installer showed me several photos of bathrooms they had done in Italy. If you get a client that wants a clean look, that might be the opening to sell this product. I finished an office area out of the 1m square material today, I like the look. I also have a few ideas of how I would like to use it in my own home.

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Unread 02-25-2013, 03:54 PM   #142
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Greg, thanks for posting some photos and (re)starting what promises to be a lively discussion. Yes, the standards committees are getting started on the product but there remain questions. Trying to get our hands around the installation part of the big picture is why we had this installation event here at our factory. We want successful installations too, it doesn't do any of us any good to put out products that fail, either because of the product or because of difficulties in installing the product.

I'll be giving a talk on thin tile along with Crossville and Mapei (and maybe Stonepeak) Wednesday at 8AM at Coverings. We'll be covering handling, installation, and the product itself although it's really just scratching the surface. As some of you who have been to Crossville or Dal's training can attest, it's a whole new animal in a lot of ways.

Meanwhile, we're doing a great deal of testing to see what systems work best on the Robinson tester. While I won't say that there is no residential appeal to this product, the most likely market is commercial so we're trying to see what mortar/grout/installation method achieves a commercial rating. We're doing our best to answer the questions you list here along with lots of others. Keep 'em coming!
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Unread 03-24-2013, 05:02 AM   #143
Lump
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Here is a well written article on thin tile and glass vertical tile work.

http://www.tile-magazine.com/article...llations?bnpad
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Unread 03-24-2013, 10:04 AM   #144
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Good read brad!
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Unread 03-24-2013, 12:27 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Would these vibrating tools from Ramondi make more sence to use to embed those tiles ?
At the seminar I went to, they suggested rather than using that Raimondi tool, that a vibrating sander with no sandpaper on it would do just as good a job for a lot less money.
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Unread 03-25-2013, 07:04 AM   #146
John Bridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Vincent
. . .a vibrating sander with no sandpaper on it would do just as good a job . . . .

That's my understanding, too.
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Unread 03-25-2013, 08:40 AM   #147
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Greg, that install of the office looks nicely put together. It just begs the desk jockey to nail up a calendar and some pictures tho.

I assume that once you place your panel it's not coming off again for a readjustment. So if you ever pressed an edge too far (deep) vs the next tile, no real chance of pulling that recessed edge area back out a smidge is there? Never played with the stuff, so just wondering what working with it is like. Also cutting outlets, etc. no worries cuts, or fear of ruining a big sheet every time you have to do one?
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Unread 03-25-2013, 03:57 PM   #148
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Kinda wondering how this stuff would take to a diamond hole saw.

Think I just might find out tomorrow. I have a scrap piece in the truck from the seminar. I'll give it a shot and let y'all know how it goes.
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Unread 03-25-2013, 04:20 PM   #149
eurob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspin
I assume that once you place your panel it's not coming off again for a readjustment. So if you ever pressed an edge too far (deep) vs the next tile, no real chance of pulling that recessed edge area back out a smidge is there? Never played with the stuff, so just wondering what working with it is like. Also cutting outlets, etc. no worries cuts, or fear of ruining a big sheet every time you have to do one?
Kevin , cutting outlets it is not a problem . I found that placing small dots of mortar every 2 to 3 inches - due to flexing -- along the joint before placing the sheet , allows you to tap it until is flush with the already installed sheet .
Another way is to use Mike's system -- MLT System -- which allows you to bring the joints flush -- not tried it yet --.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Vincent
Kinda wondering how this stuff would take to a diamond hole saw.
No problem there either , Vincent . It works quite well .
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Unread 03-26-2013, 08:32 PM   #150
tileguynky
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Kevin, had two tiles that I pushed in too far. First one, the tile snapped. Second, I was able to use a suction cup and pull it back out. I will say that what is set at the end of the day, do not push it in too far or you might not be able to push the next piece in enough to match. The tile we installed were over a rough block wall that had wood paneling over it. The flatter the wall the better. As for full tiles, the 1x1 meter material were popped off the wall several times checking coverage. Also, if you take your time and have a few extra hands, the larger panels were able to be pulled off the floor. We did this a few times to check coverage during the 2 day seminar that was hosted at the factory.

Bill, Go to page 7 of this thread post #94. All of those holes were cut dry with a diamond bit on a drill. Holes were cut one right after another. Due to the manufacturing process of this tile, the workability is totally different than the porcelain tiles we are used to using.
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