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Unread 09-06-2007, 08:26 PM   #1
dcaiazza
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Question Kerdi Pan or Mud

I finally learned how to post a thread.

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I am gearing up to remove the basement bathtub and install a 60" shower in it's place. I bought the Kerdi book and read it cover to cover and then did so more research about other ready to tile pans and here is my question. Most of you guys are mud-men who prefer to install their own floor and curb using mud. Personally, I like my fingernails as they are and am a bit intimidated about the cement thing. Which would you recommend? What about the Dixsystem OneLiner or the Fin Pan? Also, is there any way to move the drain without having to jack hammer the concrete [ie, run a sloped pipe to the new location and build a platform around it so you step up to ge to the shower area? I also understand that I may have to do additional modifications to the drain because I'm replacing the tub. HELP! I don't remember that in any of my plumbing books.
I want to know all my options before my husband gets involved!

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Unread 09-06-2007, 08:41 PM   #2
Brian in San Diego
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Dee,

I far from being a mud man, but that's what I used for my shower pan after checking out various "ready to tile" pans. Way too expensive for one and I've heard may be prone to leaks. (not verified) I think the key is to get the consistency of the mix correct. When my son and I did the mud bed for my kerdi shower I mixed the mud too wet. Led to a bunch of problems that were solved in the end. Since then I have had to do two small deck mud jobs and I actually like working with deck mud now. I think it's worth the investment to get a little sand and cement and mix some up and try it out. There's a thread on here that talks about making a "trial" pan. I also think there's a thread in the mud box about the same process.

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Unread 09-06-2007, 08:43 PM   #3
jadnashua
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Today's code requires a 2" drain line for the shower...you might find that your tub drain is 2", but, the trap is likely 1.5". They often used a bigger line under a slab than they would under a subfloor. But, if you are going to tear up the floor, you might want to move the drain to the middle.

If the floor is level, then the Kerdi pan would be faster, but more expensive. If it isn't, then getting it level first might take as much time as building a mudbed. If you use their curb, the footprint of the shower will be bigger...their premade curb is fairly wide. You don't have to use their curb, either...you could use bricks, pavers, 2x4's then cover it with drywall to any size you wanted. That's the beauty of Kerdi.
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Unread 09-06-2007, 08:57 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info. COnsidering I was going to purchase a premade floor and then tile the sides, the price for the system is actually cheaper than the onyx or swanstones [that aren't white]. I guess I could use a preformed floor but would I put the kerdi membrane underneath it and run it up the walls?
Considering the house is 20+ years old, I would assume I have the smaller drain. But I won't know until we demo the tub. The slab is fairly level as I just got done laying a cherry wood floor in the office next door. I've read that tile floors have a tendency to crack in the grout lines during the first 5 years and that concerns me. What causes that and will the mud floor prevent it? Finally, if I do go themud route, what is your opinion about the preformed pans like the Dix system pan?
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Unread 09-06-2007, 09:06 PM   #5
Brian in San Diego
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Dee,

Go to the User CP in the dark blue toolbar and edit your signature so that it appears everytime you post or risk being called "Hey, you!"

I don't know of the system you have mentioned.

I will guarantee you have 1 1/2" drain. Almost every tub does. The reason showers require 2" and tubs don't is because the tub is considered a reservoir and will store much more water than the shower in case of problems. If your washer drains into a garage sink then the drain only has to be 1 1/2", if it drains directly into the sewer drain it has to be 2".

That being said, remedying the problem is not that difficult.

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Unread 09-06-2007, 09:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
I've read that tile floors have a tendency to crack in the grout lines during the first 5 years and that concerns me.
Improperly installed tile floors perhaps... If tile is installed properly over a suitable substrate, there should never be any cracking. Unfortunately, a lot of people dont realize that certain guidelines should be followed when installing tile, and when the tilejob fails, they blame it on faulty product, and replace it with some crappy Pergo or carpet...

Quote:
I guess I could use a preformed floor but would I put the kerdi membrane underneath it and run it up the walls?
If you get a preformed base that doesnt require tile, then the Kerdi comes down to the edge of the pan... If you're talking about using the Kerdi preformed tray, the membrane covers everything, including the floor and curb, and the Kerdi drain must be used.
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Unread 09-06-2007, 09:26 PM   #7
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Thanks for the info regarding the signature. I think I just fixed that. So will I have to replace the trap when I move the drain opening to a new location to accomadate the hole for the kerdi pan or a preformed pan? [maybe I should hire that part of the job out].
I certainly want this project to go well since I want to do my bathroom after I finish hubby's.
It's the fact that his bathroom holds the last vestige of carpet that started this whole mess in the first place. I ripped it out everywhere else and replaced it with wood...NOT PERGO [that stuff doesn't even look like wood]
I downloaded all the mud recipes and will try my hand at it. If it is the least expensive...that means I could spend more on the tiles and maybe even tile the vanity top [but that's another thread].
BTW, Schluter states that HD is the only place in Kansas City that is a distributor but I've gone to 4 stores and all they have is the underlayment. Any suggestions other than ordering from the internet?
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Unread 09-06-2007, 09:30 PM   #8
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Dee, you wont get better service and faster shipping than from Tile-experts... Look around on this site for a link... Hell, David personally delivered Kerdi supplies right to my front porch on more than one occasion.
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Unread 09-07-2007, 09:39 AM   #9
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If you are VERY patient and use small words , you can convince HD to special order the Schluter products for you. I found it much simpler to order from Tile Experts online, or you could phone them up.

I did get some special order Schluter Jolly from HD and had to print pictures and model numbers from the website... and talk to three people to convince them that they DO carry the product line.
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Unread 09-07-2007, 06:15 PM   #10
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If you are VERY patient and use small words , you can convince HD to special order the Schluter products for you.

Isn't that the truth. I went in there today to see if they had any preformed pans and the 'expert' sent me back to the shower surrounds. I was able to find a company that carried the whole system and they wanted $473.00 while Tile-Experts was way less. There is one other company in town that at least carried the drain, membrane and banding. Hubby plans to start demo Sunday after I get some good covers for my wood floor. Since the drain is buried in concrete, would it be a good assumption that I need the ABS drain? I'd like to order the kit before all the demo is complete.
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Unread 09-07-2007, 06:21 PM   #11
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Hard to say if you'll need ABS or PVC. Here in the west everything is ABS, but in other parts of the country PVC is used for DWV (drain,waste,vent). If you have an attic or basement you could take a look. If the vent is one or the other, my bet is that the drain will be the same or they would have to mix different types of pipe and generally that isn't done.

BTW, the shipping from tile-experts is quick.

Brian
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Unread 09-07-2007, 07:01 PM   #12
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Dee,
Call Schluter ask for only tile distributors in your area. OR click on the TileSpikes ads at the right to take you to the Tile-Experts. (Home Depot is way over priced for Kerdi --- they don't want to stock it and takes 4 weeks to get it.)

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Unread 09-08-2007, 07:42 AM   #13
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Brian,

I looked in the utility room next to this bathroom and the pipes coming up from the toilet and the sink are the black pipe as is every other vent that I can see in this house. I assume then it is ABS. Last nigh Holmes on Homes did a bathroom demo and used the Schluter shower kit and the Ditra and I was FINALLY able to explain what I was going to do to my husband. Watching the process really helped my confidence level and I am going to start the demo this weekend [hopefully].

Dee
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Unread 09-08-2007, 08:07 AM   #14
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Black plastic pipe is ABS.
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Unread 09-10-2007, 05:52 AM   #15
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Thanks for everyone's help. Ordered the kit last night from Tile-Experts. Got the tile saw and now out to buy some tools [my favorite part!]
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