Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 08-28-2021, 03:45 PM   #16
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
Might wanna rephrase that, Mike. Drilling the boards is to prevent splitting, as Dan pointed out. But you'll be screwing into the joists and wouldn't want the same size drilled hole there.

If you're asking instead about not screwing the second layer into the joists, rather than about drilling, there is some data in the industry indicating that movement in the second layer can be reduced by not screwing into the joists, but screwing only into the first layer. "Where could I locate such data?" you might ask. That's easy; I got no eye-dee.

But I know a guy who might.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2021, 07:44 AM   #17
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Plywood over subfloor

Planning to lay 4x8 sheets of 3/4" plywood down over our slatted subfloor in prep for tiling. Have some questions before I start.

1. The subfloor boards run diagonal to the joists. Planning to lay the plywood across the joists so each sheet covers as many of the joists as possible. From what I've read, this seems like the best method but want to confirm.

2. The bathroom is 7'x6.5', and with the tub/toilet/etc., one sheet would cover most of it. Would it be best to try and cut one sheet to fit the floor or to piece it together from some smaller squares?

3. Planning to screw plywood to subfloor along the perimeter of each sheet and through the interior. Is every 2" on the outside and 4" on the inside the right spacing?

4. I'm planning to use stainless steel screws. The ones I have now are 2" decking screws. Are these the right length for 3/4" plywood plus 3/4" subfloor?

5. Planning to leave 1/8" gap between sheets of plywood and the exterior of the room. Does this require any fill if laying CBU over plywood before tiling?

Thanks!
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2021, 08:50 AM   #18
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
Michael, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.

1. There is a good article in our Liberry showing what I think is the best method for installing the second layer of plywood subflooring (which they are curiously calling an underlayment) and I'd recommend you use it to the extent feasible with over your sawn board subfloor.

2. See #1.

3. With the nominal 3/4" plywood, I would say a fastener schedule of 6" on the perimeter and 8" in the field would be more than adequate. But not necessarily in that order.

4. Those should work. 1 3/4" would be about the minimum required.

5. No.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2021, 06:01 PM   #19
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Many thanks, CX! And apologies on creating a new thread. I figured I'd veered from the starting topic enough that a new title would help, but I'm happy to keep everything here.

This article was very helpful--thanks again!

One more question... The bathroom is 49" across, which is 1" wider than my 8x4 plywood sheets. I was planning to cover the whole thing with one board, leaving 1/8" on either side, but that leaves me with a 6/8" gap to try and cover. Do you think it would be best to use one sheet and try to fill this gap somehow? Or would it make more sense to use two separate pieces, cut to fit?

As always, your advice is much appreciated. : )
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2021, 07:00 PM   #20
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
I'd leave a half-inch gap on each side, let my tile hang over a quarter-inch, and cover the remainder with my baseboard.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2021, 05:47 PM   #21
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Plywood is all cut. First few panels have been screwed in and are looking level. ????

Moving on to the bathroom next week. Are there any objections to wainscoting wall tile going directly over drywall in the bathroom? Using Kerdi board for the shower but drywall elsewhere.
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2021, 08:00 PM   #22
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
Your tiles care not a whit about level, Michael, they care only about flat. Bigger the tile, the more they care.

It is acceptable to tile directly to gypsum drywall in dry areas.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-21-2021, 02:35 PM   #23
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Thanks again, CX! Since our tiles will be small mosaic, I hope they'll be somewhat forgiving.

Have another question about sealant. Have any suggestions on what would be best for marble floor tiles using white grout and white porcelain tiles with darker grout?

Much appreciated.
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-21-2021, 02:56 PM   #24
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,698
Grout sealers do NOT prevent staining...they slow staining material from being absorbed, giving you time to clean it up first, but that may or may not be enough. Not sure white on a floor is a great idea.

Some sealers can change the appearance of a natural stone tile like marble, so see if the company offers a sample and try it on a spare tile. If you wet a tile and find that you like how that can sometimes enhance to subtle patterns and make the color pop more, you might consider an enhancing sealer...it will tend to make the tile look like it's constantly wet. You may not like that effect, but it doesn't hurt to check that out.

FWIW, when setting a natural stone tile, the moisture from the thinset, especially over a membrane, can bleed into the tile which can take up to a couple of weeks to dry out. On some, that stain can be permanent to people's dismay. With a mosaic, where stone from multiple sources may be in the sheet, the effect can vary from sheet to sheet and stone to stone, and you won't know until you've set it.

If you install the Ditra and use a roller, then, don't walk on it until the thinset cures, it's less likely to be uneven. You really do want to use one of the specified trowel size/shapes, or the amount of thinset can make it easier to leave depressions when you walk on it (or kneel) prior to the thinset curing some. SEtting smaller tile, you want to use a larger block or float to press it down into the thinset, as otherwise, getting it to lay flat is harder as you may not press each piece with the same pressure. Also note that since it's difficult to back butter small tile (you'd get a lot of thinset in between that would be a bear to clean out!), it's also harder to smush the tile down into the thinset while spreading the notches out so that they're a nice, flat, even surface with good coverage on the back of the tile. YOu may want to look for a slant-notched trowel, which creates a flatter surface so it's easier to embed the tile. IT can take a surprising amount of movement back and forth when setting a tile to flatten the notches and get the required coverage, which, on a floor in a dry area, is at least 90% coverage with 100% of the edges.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-21-2021, 03:13 PM   #25
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
Think he's asking about sealants rather than sealers, Jim. The makers of your grouts should have color matched sealants for your movement accommodation joints, Mike. If not, you can shop online at ColorRite or similar sources.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-25-2021, 09:39 AM   #26
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Thanks, everyone. We were talking about sealers-- no illusions of permanent stain prevention, just trying to stop staining from the grout.

We will have a black and white mosaic stone tile with white grout on the kitchen floor, black mosaic stone tile with white grout on the bathroom floor, and white porcelain tile with dark Grey grout on the bathroom wall. Backerboard will be CBU on floors and drywall on the wall.

I have two more questions, if you don't mind:
(1) any recommended grout brands?
(2) Can you tell me more about movement expansion joints?

Thanks!
.
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-25-2021, 10:10 AM   #27
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
OK, then, sealers it is.

The only thing I would find more concerning than using dark grout on white tiles is using white grout on floors or counter tops. But that's entirely up to you.

Regardless the sealer you choose, I'd recommend you do a test board with your stone tiles and your chosen grout to ensure compatibility before you commit to grouting the whole floor or wall area.

Each of the tile installation product manufacturers makes at least one good cementitious grout. The brands most convenient to you would influence my decision.

The ceramic tile industry relies upon a document called EJ171 for movement accommodation joints in ceramic, glass, and stone tile installations. Get a copy of that if you can.

Generally you need such a joint in your tile installation at any place the backing material makes a change of plane, any place the backing material has a movement accommodation joint, any place the tile installation abuts another material, around the perimeter of the installation and in the tile field of larger installations, depending upon the measured expanse of the tile installation and ambient conditions, with a maximum of 25 feet for most interior installations or 12 feet for exterior installations and some interior installations.

Such joints are either left open or filled with an appropriate (ASTM C920) flexible sealant, depending upon style and location.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-25-2021, 11:21 AM   #28
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,698
There are also engineered profiles you can use for expansion joints. Various companies make them, but I think you'll find that Schluter has the largest selection of colors, tile thicknesses, and materials. You can find them for floors, counters, showers, etc. They are considered lifetime for the tiled installation, whereas, an applied (urethane, silicone, etc.,) one may not be.

Some grouts are less likely to stain. Generally, an epoxy or acrylic based grout doesn't need a sealer, or stain, or stain as easily as a cement based one can. The 'plastic' grouts sometimes will yellow as they age, depending on how they're cleaned and UV exposure. I don't personally have any experience on that, so don't know how prevalent that may be, or if it happens at all on an installation, how long it may take. Some of the one-part grouts come in white. Some of the epoxy ones allow you to put in some 'add-ins' such as sparkle, glow in the dark, etc., features that can be neat. Some are translucent, and can make backlighting interesting.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-16-2021, 08:53 AM   #29
Mike_L_B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 18
Thanks, all. Was working elsewhere, but I'm jumping back into this today, putting down the cement board. For next steps, wanted to get thoughts on cutting tile.

We have small and large mosaic stone on the floor and porcelain on the walls. Local tile store recommended tile nippers for the porcelain (got those) and said diamomd blade saw would be best for stone. Was thinking about renting one but wanted to check here as well.

Thanks, as always.
__________________
Michael
Mike_L_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-16-2021, 10:04 AM   #30
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 94,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
We have small and large mosaic stone on the floor and porcelain on the walls.
Little confusing for me, Michael. That mean you also have "large and small mosaic" tiles on the wall, but they are porcelain? Or are these porcelain tiles something other than mosaics?

A large mosaic tile, by the way, would be just under 3x3 inches square. By definition, mosaics are anything with a facial dimension less than 9 square inches.

As for cutting, the nippers would work for some types of cuts on either the stone or porcelain. And some old tile mechanics can make nearly any type of cut in any type of tile using that tool, but if the edges will show, you'll probably want a wet saw for your cuts, 'specially any inside corner cuts.

Number of cuts and speed of installation would be factors in determining whether to rent or buy a saw. For me - slow guy - if there are any cuts at all that require the wet saw, I set up a saw and make all my cuts with it. If I have only mosaic tiles, that would likely be a small, table saw-type machine, rather than a larger saw, such as my DeWalt 24000.

Different strokes. I don't like renting any kind of machine that has wear items, such as saw blades. Much prefer my own machine with my own choice of blade. Never know quite what you'll get with a rental.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Laying down mosaic tiles on linoleum on concrete Mike36 Tile Forum/Advice Board 17 11-08-2015 08:19 PM
Laying mosaic accents around floor tile of different thickness strothei Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 08-11-2009 03:04 PM
Laying 1x1 mosaic sheets on wall rambo1224 Tile Forum/Advice Board 13 05-06-2008 07:47 AM
Help with laying mosaic tiles Eka Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 04-05-2005 10:00 AM
laying out tile MWWeiner Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 03-18-2004 09:10 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC