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Unread 08-07-2009, 06:47 PM   #16
T_Hulse
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Howdy CX.
I've missed this place.
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Unread 08-07-2009, 07:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
How do they keep the paper dry?


And the magazine rack?
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Unread 08-07-2009, 07:41 PM   #18
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Well, Tom, door's always open.
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Unread 08-08-2009, 10:46 AM   #19
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Is there any way he could change to a wall mount toilet then you could get your pan and slope. Thats what we do in the hospitals did 84 rms had to pan complete bathroom floor.
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Unread 08-08-2009, 07:48 PM   #20
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Plumbers in WI used to turn me in to the inspector when I put shower pans in. Didn't matter what county I worked in either, but never did much up North. Here is what the National Code says;


SECTION 417 SHOWERS
417.1 Approval. Prefabricated showers and shower compartments shall conform to ANSI 2124.2, ASME A112.19.9M or CSA B45.5. Shower valves for individual showers shall conform to the requirements of Section 424.3.
417.2 Water supply riser. Every water supply riser from the shower valve to the shower head outlet, whether exposed or not, shall be attached to the structure in an approved manner.
417.3 Shower waste outlet. Waste outlets serving showers shall be at least 1'/Z inches (38 mm) in diameter and, for other than waste outlets in bathtubs, shall have removable strainers not less than 3 inches ('76 mm) in diameter with strainer openings not less than 0.25 inch (6.4 mm) in minimum dimension. Where each shower space is not provided with an individual waste outlet, the waste outlet shall be located and the floor pitched so that waste from one shower does not flow over the floor area serving another shower. Waste outlets shall be fastened to the waste pipe in an approved manner.
4i7.4 Shower compartments. All shower compartments shall have a minimum of 900 square inches (0.58 m2) of interior cross-sectional area. Shower compartments shall not be less than 30 inches (762 mm) in minimum dimension measured from the finished interior dimension of the compartment, exclusive of fixture valves, showerheads, soap dishes, and safety grab bars or rails. Except as required in Section 404, the minimum required area and dimension shall be measured from the finished interior dimension at a height equal to the top of the threshold and at a point tangent to its centerline and shall be continued to a height not less than 70 inches (1778 mm) above the shower drain outlet.
417.4.1 Wall area. The wall area above built-in tubs with installed shower heads and in shower compartments shall be constructed of smooth, noncorrosive and nonabsorbent waterproof materials to a height not less than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the room floor level, and not less than 70 inches (1778 mm) where measured from the compartment floor at the drain. Such walls shall form a water-tight joint with each other and with either the tub, receptor or shower floor.
417.5 Shower floors or receptors. Floor surfaces shall be constructed of impervious, noncorrosive, nonabsorbent and waterproof materials.
417.5.1 Support. Floors or receptors under shower compartments shall be laid on, and supported by, a smooth and structurally sound base.
417.5.2 Shower lining. Floors under shower compartments, except where prefabricated receptors have been provided, shall be lined and made water tight utilizing material complying with Sections 417.5.2.1 through 417.5.2.4. Such liners shall turn up on all sides at least 2 inches (51 mm) above the finished threshold level. Liners shall be recessed and fastened to an approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25 mm) above the finished threshold. Liners shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) and shall be sloped toward the fixture drains and be securely fastened to the waste outlet at the seepage entrance, making a water-tight joint between the liner and the outlet.
Exception: Floor surfaces under shower heads provided for rinsing laid directly on the ground are not required to comply with this section.
417.5.2.1 PVC sheets. Plasticized polyvinyl chloride (PVC) sheets shall be a minimum of 0.040 inch (1.02 mm) thick, and shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4551. Sheets shall be joined by solvent welding in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions.
417.5.2.2 Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE) sheets. Nonplasticized chlorinated polyethylene sheet shall be a minimum 0.040 inch (1.02 mm) thick, and shall meet the requirements of ASTM D 4068. The liner shall be joined in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions.
417.5.2.3 Sheet lead. Sheet lead shall not weigh less than 4 pounds per square foot (19.5 kg/M2) coated with an asphalt paint or other approved coating. The lead sheet shall be insulated from conducting substances other than the connecting drain by 15-pound (6.80 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent. Sheet lead shall be joined by burning.
417.5.2.4 Sheet copper. Sheet copper shall conform to ASTM B 152 and shall not weigh less than 12 ounces per square foot (3.7 kg/M2). The copper sheet shall be insulated from conducting substances other than the connecting drain by 15-pound (6.80 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent. Sheet copper shall be joined by brazing or soldering.
417.6 Glazing. Windows and doors within a shower enclosure shall conform to the safety glazing requirements of the International Building Code.


2006 1NTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODEĀ®
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Unread 08-10-2009, 09:41 PM   #21
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Where does sheet membranes play into this scenario? Hammy
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Unread 08-10-2009, 10:35 PM   #22
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Mmmm, you wanna rephrase the question, Hammy?
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Unread 08-10-2009, 10:47 PM   #23
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Hammy, Start here in Dave's post, it lists approved liners.

417.5.2 Shower lining.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuh, unless you're talking about surface membranes like Kerdi. Won't find it listed in there. Remember, these codes are minimum requirements, not all possible options.
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Unread 08-11-2009, 05:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Hammy, Start here in Dave's post, it lists approved liners.

417.5.2 Shower lining.
I read that but,......... It says liners shall comply with:

shall be lined and made water tight utilizing material complying with Sections 417.5.2.1 through 417.5.2.4

That kinda leaves out KERDI and etc, at least by National code 2006 . Hammy
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Unread 08-11-2009, 08:34 AM   #25
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Ah, now I unnerstan the question, Hammy. Little slower some days.

I think the manufacturers of these waterproofing products hafta get individual approval under the plumbing codes for their products. I think NobleSeal is one of the thickest of these direct-bonding membranes and it's only about .030" thick, well under the code requirement of .040" posted above.

Same with Schluter's drain. No provision in the codes except for the individual submittal and approval.

And even with those approvals it's a real battle to get the methods accepted at the local level. Clamping drains are all most local compliance jurisdictions and inspectors have ever seen or heard of. And I have no idea how they react to the use of liquid-applied membranes with those drains, never having tried that trick at all. Change is an uphill battle.

As DaveG points out, it's still heresy in many jurisdictions for a non-plumber to install a shower pan. How you gonna do a Kerdi shower or a NobleSeal shower if you gotta have the plumber install the pan? And how many of you out there allow the plumbers to install your clamping drain and pre-slope for traditional liners?

It's tough making "the system" work sometimes, for sure.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-11-2009, 09:04 PM   #26
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here are a couple pics of it. the toilet is on the far right side of the shower. the other end of shower is where the shower heads and drain is.He still is deciding on what hes goin to do. I gave him some rough estimates and told him it may be much more pending on the code.

Hey musky......this warm front is just in time for some good sweet corn
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Unread 08-11-2009, 09:11 PM   #27
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i bumped this with my foot that day and it fell right off. i dont know what they did here but it looks like they tried to fix the leak by liq nailing some pieces all along the bottom in hopes that would help seal around the pan maybe? who knows.
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