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Unread 01-10-2022, 10:50 PM   #16
Lookloan
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Question

Thank you CX Looks like my tile is 8.8 mm which makes the width about 5/8
I know the trade off is tented tikes vs looking horrible. I am visiting a Tile America in the next day or two and I want to take a peek at the Schluter expansion profile. The home has an industrial look and I’m thinking the thin stainless steel parallel strips with the center gray may be more pleasing on the eye. It’s my understanding a flexible grout still has to applied to each side of the center gray absorption rubber type piece between the metal. I can also test your way to compare. It’s funny no one answered if they used the Schluter expansion profiles. I wonder how many tilers skip over this expansion step.
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Unread 01-11-2022, 12:10 AM   #17
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Yes, the Schluter strips are perfect…when the color is right. But you’re limited to colors. Yes, the little gap between the tiles and expansion strip need to be grouted (not sure what you meant by “flexible grout”).

Far more often, I’ll use a colored-matched silicone from ColorRite called ColorSil (with or without the sanded texture option) or a product called Earth Master Groutmatch that uses your sanded grout mixed with their silicone (the effect is good, as the finish surface matches in color very well, and the sheen is only a little shinier than the adjoining sanded grout.

Only a minority of tilers understand the need for joints. Even fewer actually go through with installing joints because of push-back from clients that say they’re unsightly and unacceptable. These same clients have lawyers that later seem to have the opposite opinion about the need for joints when the tiles “tent” off the floor.

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Unread 01-11-2022, 08:40 AM   #18
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Thank you Tool Guy - that was the perfect answer. If only I had a guy like you
locally who is conscience.
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Unread 01-11-2022, 09:08 AM   #19
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The finished joint will look very much like the grout joints. I think it's the best treatment possible. As CX stated, perimeter joints, or any joints abutting immovable objects. are vastly important. I create movement joints wherever the installation goes through doorways, into hallways, etc., no matter how close those joints are to each other. In long rooms, 25 feet for example, I'll have a joint out in the middle. Homeowners might not like it, but the job can't be warrantied otherwise.
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Unread 01-22-2022, 12:02 AM   #20
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I try to stay ahead by having the tools I will need
and I have a question on trowel size for 24x24 porcelain tile

The tile has a pattern on the underside
which will get filled in when I butter the tile.
I was thinking of using a 1/2 x 1/2 trowel but
wondering between the buttering and 1/2 trowel
I will be putting down too much thin set.

Using All-set Schluter gray for Ditra with a Schluter
11/16 trowel. Not seeing a Schluter 1/2x1/2 trowel
to buy and was wondering if there is a good brand
trowel to look at in addition to the size trowel question
Thank you
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Unread 01-22-2022, 09:03 AM   #21
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The minimum thinset mortar thickness after a tile is set is 3/32". With smaller tiles this is easy to achieve as they are pretty flat and will follow the contour of a non-flat floor or wall fairly easily.

Once you move up to a "large format" tile, defined as a tile that measures 15" or more across any side, things change. Often LFT is not flat so going with only 3/32" of mortar could leave the tile with insufficient support under sections of it. Or, the floor itself isn't flat; the center of the tile could be on a high spot leaving the ends with insufficient coverage or the tile bridges a low spot leaving the center with insufficient coverage. Worst case, you have a tile that is bowed in the center and it is placed over a slow spot in the floor. The ends are fine but the center is unsupported.

That's why a 1/2"X1/2" square notched trowel is often recommended for LFT. You can certainly get away with smaller IF the tile being installed is very flat and so too is the floor.

So, check your tile and check your floor. For the floor I believe the standard when installing a LFT is no more variation than 1/16" in 2' or 1/8" in 10' from the intended plane.

For what it's worth, I used a 3/8" slant notched trowel when installing my 12"X24" wall and floor tile, but both the tile and floor were very flat.
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Unread 01-22-2022, 10:01 PM   #22
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Hoping for help on under tile pattern and direction. I am posting a picture of the bottom of my 24x24 porcelain Italy made tile grade A+ on box. Please note the White pattern that looks like arrows. After watching a video of large format tile insulation, the installer pointed out a direction arrow at the bottom of his tile as he was buttering. Since this arrow puzzled me I looked at the bottom of my tile and I think they look like a fancy row of white painted like arrows. Do these look like install direction arrows to you guys?

My plan in to butter the indented pattern on the bottom. I was planning on using a 1/2x1/2x1/2 trowel over Ditra. Using 11/16 Schluter trowel under Ditra with gray Allset by Schluter. My question is with the back of tile buttered, would you go with the 1/2 square teeth trowel - will this result in to much thin set? Thank you
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Unread 01-22-2022, 11:07 PM   #23
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Might wanna try that photo again, Jim.
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Unread 01-23-2022, 09:57 AM   #24
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Here is a photo of back of tile
Attached Images
 
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Unread 01-23-2022, 10:07 AM   #25
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Could well be directional arrows, Jim. The 12X24's I installed had arrows, but they were not paint.

Regardless, I'd lay them all out and rearrange/orient them so the pattern on the top of the tile flows the way you want it to. Like stop signs and lights where I live, the arrows can be considered suggestions.

Are you certain the tile length and width measurements are the same?
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Unread 01-23-2022, 10:52 AM   #26
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Has anyone used Blanko membrane? It goes down with 1/4 inch thin set vs Ditra 11/64 and Blanko is supposed to offer greater support for deflection. One problem I see if I did a large main area in Blanko, it would not match the Ditra height even though both are 1/8 unless I used Ditra XL in smaller bedrooms
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Unread 01-23-2022, 12:43 PM   #27
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You are asking perhaps about the Blanke Permat membrane, Jim?

You are believing their advertising, which indicates a very significant structural capability of their mesh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
It goes down with 1/4 inch thin set vs Ditra 11/64
Not understanding that very much. You're perhaps alluding to the trowel notch size recommendation of the manufacturers for installing the product, perhaps?
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Unread 01-23-2022, 02:19 PM   #28
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Hi CX - BLANKE PERMAT is the product I was asking about if anyone
had experience with it using it on a residential floor. I have my Ditra ready to go
and I came across this product - I think it’s 3x more expensive than Ditra. Basically Ditra takes 11/64 trowel and BLANKE PERMAT takes 1/4.

It seems like an interesting product - they say you can install any size
tile - I have to check if 24x24 porcelain can go over Ditra - why would
an installer pick Ditra XL ? Wonder with 24x24 tile if XL is better - it’s thicker
but uses the same 11/64 trowel - besides the thicker plastic not sure why use Ditra vs XL

I apologize for all the questions - I am confident I’m close to beginning
and I am thankful for the support to my questions. The BLANKE PERMAT is a last
minute observation to maybe have a better install
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Unread 01-23-2022, 06:14 PM   #29
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The only tile size restriction for Ditra is a minimum, Jim. Nothing smaller than 2x2-inch tile is approved. Anything larger is fine.

"Why would an installer pick Ditra XL?" I dunno. Schluter says it works real well when trying to match finished floor level when matching up to hardwood. Aside from that, it's supposed to have better "uncoupling" properties than regular Ditra. Problem with that is we don't know what uncoupling properties Ditra has, on accounta there is no available test and there is no industry standard.

Upon what does Blanke base its claims? I have no idea.

Those trowel sizes are for the installation of the product and there is no difference between Ditra and Ditra in that regard.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-23-2022, 07:27 PM   #30
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The tile is supported by the columns of the thinset in the pockets and the fact that the fleece layer is beneath that. The size of the grid is why they call for a minimum tile size of 2x2" to ensure the tile can't tip due to a heavy point load because the tile ends up cantilevered. The density of the fleece could make a difference on how much thinset is needed to fill in the spaces, but in reality, I think they basically just decide on how much is needed to ensure you get proper coverage. More means you'll spend more on the thinset.

In theory, the DitraXL might allow slightly more horizontal motion for expansion/contraction because the height of the pockets and the resulting matrix around them, but it was designed to help match the height with a typical wooden finished floor to the tiled surface.
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