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Unread 08-06-2009, 07:54 AM   #346
LadyGodiva
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Our taxes pay for schools (public ones), and if you're in a good neighbourhood like mine (higher property taxes), the schools are generally better. Sucks for those poorer areas though. They don't have the resources we do.

But everyone can send their children to a school without having to fork out extra money, or be denied an education, not so?

Why can't the same approach be used for healthcare?

Now don't go getting those boxers in a wad. I hear it's uncomfortable
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Unread 08-06-2009, 08:03 AM   #347
jgleason
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Matt,
I never said an all volunteer service would work in every case. Anecdotally I can find stories such as yours that put to shame the professional fully paid fire departments as well.

And by the way - I have no problem with either a bunch of folks banding together to fund something or a local or state government doing the same thing on a larger scale.

What I do have a problem with is any government overstepping its constitutional bounds which the federal government has clearly done in many areas.

I'm clearly for a much smaller, less powerful federal government. In the long run I believe less government mandates and interference with our liberty is the right way to go.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 12:43 PM   #348
sandbagger
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two can play this game, Matt. Since I live just outside the city limits I pay fees for some things that city folks get taxed for. Two of those are trash pickup and fire department.

For trash we actually have competition between two companies and the rates are as good or better than the city folks pay whether they like it or not. When the City Council raises fees - like they just did - you have no choice. I just call the other guy if I don't like the price.

I pay about a buck a day for Metro Fire. I really look at that as an insurance policy. I can tell you from first-hand sighting that their response is excellent. They even handle picking up the occasional rattlesnake that decides to sun himself in your driveway. Or I can choose to be "self-insured" and pay for services rendered as needed. The response time is the same.

But there is one simple document that some of you are working very hard to ignore - the Constitution. And please don't cite the old "general welfare" reference in the Preamble.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 06:49 PM   #349
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Holy Crap! I just finished reading this thread! My eyes may be bleeding.

There is a lot of emotion in this place.

Roger, I wish you and your family the best.

The government is surely inefficient, and loaded with procedure. The FDA is the single largest expense a Pharm company needs to pay for a new drug. In 2001 the price paid for FDA approval was 250 million, not sure about the current cost.

I see many pros and cons to both sides. As far as my solution for it all, here it goes.

...

I don't think there is an all inclusive solution. Humans have not created a language capable of explaining a solution. We certainly can't try to spell it out, providing for every feasible scenario.

I like to think that if more was done as far as prevention goes, things would eventually get less pricey in our current system. ( A penny of prevention is worth a pound of cure - Ben Franklin.) But prices don't fall on the consumer end, ever.

I do however, see a problem with a for profit company, making life and death decisions. I think the moral and ethical ramifications of the current system are too many to list. I love to own stock in insurance companies, not real comfy being a client though. Roger's situation is an example of such a thing. Pay for a service to use, time comes to use it and the company denies the service. Bull Shit.


Prevention

Nutrition ( I don't mean that food pyramid bull shit, They are more f'd up than the heath care system. )

Exercise -( who knows, get everybody a gym pass or something )

These 3 things should become our base. Get us healthy. Get us moving.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 07:06 PM   #350
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What about a "term" policy similar to life insurance? You can buy in and get covered for x number years regardless. just a thought.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 09:44 PM   #351
MudMaker
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Joe Welcome...
Health Insurance should be the same as Life Insurance... You use it JUST IN CASE YOU NEED IT.. EVERYTHING ELSE You pay for... Simple.. .. it's just Insurance.. As far as Health Care - We have the best in the world....
Very few don't have it.. No one has put an accurate number on people without Health Care in the U.S. that want it.. All numbers include people that can afford it and choose not to get it...
After all, it is not a RIGHT...... Just like car Insurance is not a right in the US... You gots to pay your own...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
I do however, see a problem with a for profit company, making life and death decisions.
Somebody will make those decisions whether it's a for Profit Company or the Government.. You pick which one you think will do the better job!!!
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Unread 08-06-2009, 10:13 PM   #352
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From what I understand, we have the "best"emergency care. But the best in the world overall?

You really need to get out more mm.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 10:56 PM   #353
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yes, LadyG, the best in the world!

and please don't trot out the "life expectancy" or "infant mortality" charts. Those are classic proofs of the old "lies, damn lies, and statistics."
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Unread 08-06-2009, 11:03 PM   #354
ddmoit
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Single-Payer Groceries, Anyone?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo176.html


Quote:
Since I always try to keep a step ahead of the bad guys, it will be useful to think through how say, a single-payer grocery industry would work. Such an exercise will also teach us some lessons about what can be expected of a "single-payer," government-run healthcare monopoly.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 11:27 PM   #355
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careful, Dan, don't give these clowns any ideas.
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Unread 08-06-2009, 11:42 PM   #356
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Obama at 50% Now

Mitt Romey must love this.


Of course you can't get elected these days without the hispanic vote. Hmmmm. I wonder if there is a reasonably popular republican with executive management experience who can speak Spanish?

Can you spell J*E*B *B*U*S*H

I think the chances of another Bush getting elected in this country could be whether Obama can keep this country from getting another ugly or scary attack.

That would cause some things to be rewritten about history and whether Bush was taking care of business or not.


OOPS! I thought I was posting in the King Obama Thread.............this is health
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Unread 08-07-2009, 08:41 AM   #357
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Roger,

1st: I apologize for attacking you personally in my last post. Forgive me all of you.

2nd: Thank you for your service in the USMC!


Please take head though, Roger. As a Marine, you took an oath to defend the United States Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Your rant was totally "unConstitutional-like". Please remember the "freedom of speech" part - yes, a right of every breathing U.S. Citizen - the liberals would like to have removed, ignored, etc. If you are against free speech - not the same as commonsensical speech, nor speech that sounds good, but true free speech - you need to reevaluate your allegiance.

Thank you. I am definitely done now. I gotta go. They are knocking at my door. Friggin bots are getting faster!
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Unread 08-07-2009, 09:26 AM   #358
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Its kinda like giving blood to the Red Cross. To hell with them.
I'v never needed it , nor anyone in MY family.If you or some one you care about needs it make your own.If you run out ,its not my problem .Sure, if a bunch of us just gave just a LITTLE you might live, but why should I ,you should have been planning ahead and put some in the bank.
Until YOU need it it's easy not to see the problem ..
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Unread 08-07-2009, 10:00 AM   #359
sandbagger
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Quote:
Its kinda like giving blood to the Red Cross.
now, Eric, you know better than that. Don't you think there's a wee bit of difference between a purely voluntary activity and being forced by the government?
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Unread 08-07-2009, 10:07 AM   #360
ddmoit
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The blood analogy would not even be available if the market for blood was allowed to be free. Shortages would end overnight. Those with rare blood types would be motivated by market prices to donate regularly.
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