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Unread 01-03-2022, 03:07 PM   #16
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I dunno, Rigo. The explanation sounds a bit shaky to me. The window in question appears in the original elevation plan. Why, then would it need to be eliminated to allow it with the interior elevations?

And why did he tell you first that it was because the roof would leak if done per your plans, then change his reason to the ceiling heights being the problem?

I'd hafta sit down with the actual drawings, of course, but I'm a bit skeptical. Actually, I'm a lot skeptical.

Have you spoken with the architect who drew the plans?
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Unread 01-03-2022, 03:26 PM   #17
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I agree, If he had built it with the correct ceiling height's you could of had an even larger Transom window or an arched one like drawn.

Do your plans have any cross sections of the area?
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Unread 01-03-2022, 03:30 PM   #18
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Was the roof stick-framed or was it trusses, Rigo?
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Unread 01-03-2022, 03:45 PM   #19
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It appears that the plate lines should have been lowered in theses 2 marked areas to create the proper roof lines
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Unread 01-03-2022, 04:04 PM   #20
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CX I think they built the trusses on sight. The windows were ached but I changed them to square.
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Unread 01-03-2022, 04:06 PM   #21
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Unread 01-03-2022, 04:14 PM   #22
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I texted the architect before I called the builder and he said there was an obvious problem. And to to see what the builder said. Now Im gonna get with the architect and go over what the builder and I discussed. And basically tell him the builder said it was a bad design.
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Unread 01-03-2022, 04:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigo
And basically tell him the builder said it was a bad design.
That'll be fun! But, again, it does happen.

I'll be very curious to hear the outcome of this. I will not, however, need to lay pounder to my finger while I wait, as will our friend Peter.
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Unread 01-03-2022, 04:49 PM   #24
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I appreciate you guys alot and will keep y'all updated. Sorry this is far from a tile issue.
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Unread 01-03-2022, 05:25 PM   #25
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Yeah, it belongs in the Mud Box, Rigo, and I'll move it there. But it's well within range of subjects the site is willing to entertain.

I think we should eliminate the CX from the title, too, but that's entirely up to you.
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Unread 01-03-2022, 05:29 PM   #26
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Much appreciated sir.
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Unread 01-04-2022, 03:48 AM   #27
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I’d keep your options 100% open until you’ve met with everyone you need to and have a new, signed change-order specifying whatever it is that y’all agree to. I mention this because it’s far too easy for both you and the builder/framer to have come away from that last meeting with different perceptions.

Sometime during that meeting where their explanation seemed to make sense to you at the time (and all of us experienced builders were wincing and thinking, ‘Oh, crap, he’s getting bamboozled’) you might have nodded and responded, “yeah, I see what the framer was thinking”….well, it’s awfully easy for the builder and framer to “forget” exactly what was said and honestly (or otherwise) think you agreed to their explanation and you were fine with a $200 upgrade to one of the tile projects…or a $1,500 patio slab pour…or something. If that ends up happening, too much time may pass…the conversation gets disremembered…and it becomes increasingly difficult to obtain your expected satisfaction.

To me, the design change to the roof is rather huge. It impacts the curb appeal of the house. To me, the first thought that comes to mind is that a $15k mistake has been made and I’d want it corrected. To me, the roof correction is more valuable than slightly nicer tile….or a patio slab pour or something similar. I don’t have high hopes that leaving the roof alone as-is would yield you the same $$$ in additional negotiated work/materials. But I don’t know your builder from Adam. I’m only comparing this to what I’ve seen over the course of my career.
-If the framer happens to be an actual employee of the builder, well, that may indicate my above words could be incorrect. And that you might get terrific satisfaction from the builder who is willing to dip into his own pocket to make this right. (I know you’ve chosen your builder carefully and want to think the best of them because it reinforces your decision to hire them in the first place.)

-But I’m assuming the framer is an independent contractor for the builder. If this is the case, the builder will generally (99.99% of the time) make the framer pay for this correction out of the framer’s pocket. One of the most agreeable times a builder will concede to an expensive correction is when the money doesn’t come out of their own pocket. I mention this because it may more realistically give you an idea on what you may or may not be able to negotiate. It may be that the cheapest thing for the builder to do is make the framer make a correction to the roof and be done with it. It’s quite rare to see the follow up to a negotiation go as well in reality as what was discussed at a meeting like you just mentioned.
So, I’m circling back to the first sentence of this post…I’d come right out and say to your builder that you are reserving your decision on correcting this issue until you’ve talked to all parties and have figured out a course of action.

On a completely different aspect of this issue:
I’ll come out and say something about what you and your wife may be thinking. This is a genuine boo-boo on the builder’s part. If you guys are really and truly okay with the change to the roof, fine. Then go about your business getting tile and patio upgrades. But I’ve seen it happen very often where the husband and wife are in the somewhat mysterious and anxious process of building and they protect each other with their decisions and make it as easy on their spouse as possible by not making the other spouse go through the painful process of holding their builder’s feet to the fire. That’s a lovely and wonderful caring thing to do for each other. But if the curb appeal to this roof is less appealing to you guys than what was planned…you might wanna re-think what’s the most valuable fix to this issue.

I wish you the best.

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Unread 01-04-2022, 09:56 AM   #28
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Rigo, I don't know if you're still looking for input, but I have to agree with Bubba on the both the $$ and visual impact. Here's some more thoughts FWIW.

It would certainly be in the GC's best interest to appease or even entice you with adding whatever. To unwind the current construction and rebuild to plan would be a huge endeavor. Additional lumber, labor, etc. would probably mitigate any profit potential, and quite possibly start pulling from company wallet resulting in an unrecoverable cost, assuming a fixed price contract. From a business perspective, minimizing $$ loss becomes the prime directive.

What you have appears to be a stick-built roof frame, constructed on site from raw material. Trusses are engineered structures, built in truss plants, hauled to jobsite and craned into position. While I have a ton of respect for good, old-school framing, the complexity of a roof like plan shows could probably be best accomplished with trusses and some fill-in framing. This assumes builder is accustomed to working with them.

Around here, trusses are the norm with framing like your roof being the anomaly. Lack of good, math-wise framers, complex, multiple plane roofs and advances in truss design software have all but taken over that portion of building. Some pretty amazing structures have been built by good designers using good software and a capable plant. That varies with location though.

Some architects tend toward hard-to-build designs, with seemingly little regard for how the actual construction will progress.

To my eye, the gap between elevation drawing and what you've pictured is not insignificant. Yeah, it's just a house, but one you took the time and energy to get to your liking. Imagine ordering a red Corvette, and upon delivery they hand you the keys to a blue one, explaining that red ones are somehow in short supply, but we're gonna give free oil changes for a year. Are you OK with that?

If I look rearward across the last 30 years, the inclusion of steeper pitched, multi-planed, more visible roofs that help to define the "face" of a home have become more commonplace. I could argue both sides of the why, but curb appeal is valuable in a number of ways.

Perhaps some food for thought.
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Unread 01-04-2022, 12:17 PM   #29
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Thx for the input guys. I met with the builder today and we went over the details of what happened. After looking at the plans while being there and looking at the angles. My design would not have worked. I haven't talked to the architect yet, but will soon. At the end he said it was the framer that didn't tell him there were issues. But he should have noticed anyway. So he gave me the option of ripping it off and try another design. But since im fine with the roof, I gave him an option. Im gonna let him finish the outside completely and if I don't like it we will tear down the roof. That means windows, paint, door once I see it all complete then I'll make my decision.
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Unread 01-04-2022, 01:01 PM   #30
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Removing and redesigning that roof now will be a PITA, but quite doable. Removing and redesigning that roof after complete dry-in is also doable, but is much more likely to create other problems with the structure, especially the sealing of the fenestrations and general integrity of the house wrap.

Doing it now would simply be rafter work. Doing it at the stage you're talking about, would be more problematic to my thinking. But, as always, that's:

My opinion; worth price charged.
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