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Unread 09-21-2021, 10:14 PM   #1
Shady at Best
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Fixing hot mopped shower pan

Hey all. I spent the day fixing a hand full of leaks in cast iron waste pipe. Well, one of the leaks turned out to be a leaking hot mop shower pan. The shower is 10-15 years. I told the homeowner, the brother in law, that they are probably looking at a new shower but i would check with others and possibly attempt a repair first.
Back in the day when i used to do warranty work my boss and i fixed a hot mop by melting some tar and pouring it over the crack. But i don't trust anything that i learned from him and figured i would check with the pros first.
As of now the exact issue is unknown. I know the hot mop is leaking and it's not leaking at the drain. It's a raised foundation and when under the house the water is coming through at the wall/ pan interface. So i assume it's leaking at the perimeter but i suppose it could be leaking somewhere in the feild and migrating over to the edge.
Let's say i can pull up the tile and the mortar pan, get it sort of clean, and locate a visible crack or hole. Shouldn't one be able to heat up the tar in the pan and pour more tar over it? Of course trying to keep the slope slopey and keeping it away from the weep holes.
The shower is getting old and the in laws are planning on moving to another state for a job opportunity. This repair is meant to be more than a few month patch but no one is concerned about it lasting another 10+years.

Thoughts?

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Unread 09-22-2021, 08:24 AM   #2
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Are you going to have to warranty the shower after an attempted repair?

Worst case scenario, let's say you get to some level of demolition and find that for whatever reason it can't be repaired. Are you and the customer prepared for a complete demo and rebuild at this point?

I know this doesn't really answer your specific question about repairing a hot mop, but these are things you should take into consideration before beginning.
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Unread 09-22-2021, 11:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady at Best View Post
I told the homeowner, the brother in law, that they are probably looking at a new shower but i would check with others and possibly attempt a repair first.


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Unread 09-23-2021, 09:16 PM   #4
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Well.. it's not looking like a simple repair.
Has anyone ever done a repair to a shower with this sort of problem?
I want to say that I saw a video with a simular repair where they removed the bottom row of tiles, cut into the wall float at about 2 inches below where the top of the tile were. Removed everything below that, fix any damaged wood and start building a shower pan again.
The main issue I see is tying the old waterproofing to the new. Ideally the tar paper.
This repair isn't about money it's About time. The house was to be inspected this weekend and put on the market next week. That's not going to happen.
I just had this thought and in a perfect scenario I think this would be awesome. Remove all the existing wall tile, thinset, grind excess thinset, etc, while trying not to damage the float. If successful, build a new shower pan and line the whole shower with a membrane like kerdi.
What about that?
Of course there will always be the real possibility that the whole shower is coming out down to the studs and starting over.

Which direction would you go?
Remove the bottom row and attempt a repair?
Try to remove the tile without damaging the float and covering it with a membrane.
Or just start fresh and pull it all out?

Here are some pics of the tear out.
#1 Dry pack out. A big crack in the back right corner of shower. Upper left in photo
#2 The gap were the hot mop is damaged. I assume it tore due to subfloor flex,inadequate support of the t&g.
#3 this sand was under the hot mop. I think it's that slope felt stuff that some build up the pan with. Come to think of it this flexing could have allowed the tar to separate.
#4 A picture after removing a section of tar, tar paper, and cleaning it up. The t&g look good.
#5 A close up. A simple repair it is not

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Unread 09-24-2021, 07:00 PM   #5
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Are you saying there's tar paper behind the mudded walls? Or are you assuming there is? Many of those old mud showers have the lath fastened right to the studs. Then a scratch coat and the finish brown coat.

We use to tear out the floor, curb and bottom 12 inches of the walls (1 row of tile in your case). Replace the pan, then mud and tile it back. Haven't done one in years but like you said, tying in the waterproofing is nearly impossible to do, if it has waterproofing.

Have you got left over tiles to patch it back in?

As far as patching the hot mop, I've never done it. Looks to me like, if the hot mop is rotting in one spot, it's probably rotting all over. I wouldn't patch it, I'd replace it.
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Unread 09-26-2021, 09:37 PM   #6
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HI Davey,
There is tar paper, thin aqua bar type paper, behind the float and on top of what appears to be sheet rock. The staples that hold the wire up have rust and I assume that water has gotten through to the sheet rock although its not in bad shape.
Originally I was hoping that I would find a small crack or something in the hot mop that could be fixed. If so, I was hoping to fill/cover it with hot tar. But that isn't the case. The hot mop is destroyed/deteriorated.

The first row of tile came off the wall without destroying the float. My next possible fix is going to be to pull the tile down and attempt a repair. Although we are getting close to the point where it all might as well get torn out.
Here's my potential plan (A). Pull the the tile, hit the float with a cup wheel and remove excess thinset. Finish removing all the hot mop, inspect/repair the subfloor. Hang some sheet rock, tar paper, and wire in the lower 12-18 inches. Install a membrane type drain and float a new pan. Then cover the whole thing in kerdi or some other membrane. Then tile it.

Plan (B) Tear it all out and start over fresh with a kerdi shower.

What would any of you do in my situation?
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Unread 09-30-2021, 01:31 PM   #7
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Hello everyone.
Anyone know what the white piece is for that's included in some, maybe all, delta rough in's?
Looking for what it is and what it does. See attached photo. Photo got turned sideways. I am talking about the white thing above the rejection nut
Thanks


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Unread 09-30-2021, 01:35 PM   #8
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Since we are talking. The float came clean relatively easy. The plan now is to fix and our reinforce the subfloor, build a new mortar shower pan, mud the walls and tie the 2 together, then cover every thing in kerdi.
Do you all see any problems with this?

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Unread 09-30-2021, 02:55 PM   #9
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Mud walls and floor with Kerdi on top! Sounds bullet proof to me Travis

What do you mean "tie the two together"?
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Unread 09-30-2021, 04:12 PM   #10
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Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Tie the existing mud walls together with the new stuff on the pan and lower 12ish inches of the walls. I am planning on reusing the existing float and am a little concerned about the cold joint. I will chip away an inch or two of cement off the wire where the old and new will meet. Then overlap the new wire with the old and cover with fat mud.

I am going to break all the rules with this one. Kerdi membrane, Flo fx drain, modified thinset.. It's going to be great.

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Last edited by cx; 09-30-2021 at 04:34 PM.
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Unread 09-30-2021, 11:07 PM   #11
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I wanna say that white piece goes in one side or the other to keep your hot and cold water from mixing together.

I've been wrong before, though.
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Unread 10-01-2021, 12:36 PM   #12
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Kevin,
That's what I thought it was for but wanted to run it by you all first.


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