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Unread 05-05-2021, 11:45 AM   #16
jayjonbeach
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Schluter Thin Sets have NO warranty in Steam Room!

So this is pretty crazy. In their handbook, say for continuous use steam rooms they recommend the Kerdi DS of course, and then unmodified thin set according to ANSI 118.1 standards, even though it seems the conventional wisdom would be to use modified, so in this case their All-Set.

So on the data sheets for both their "Set" and their All-Set", in the warranty section it states, "This Limited Warranty excludes exterior, submerged and steam room applications"

All these can be accessed on their website, talk about contradictions and Loop holes. A Technical Rep is supposed to get back to me on this, not feeling especially warm or fuzzy here
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Unread 05-05-2021, 02:26 PM   #17
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It'll help if you'll keep all the project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered, Jon. A moderator can give it a more generic title any time you'd like to suggest one.

You'll find that when the setting product manufacturers' speak of steam rooms they're referring to the industry requirements for "continuous use steam showers" and not residential steam showers. No, it doesn't say that. No, I can't guarantee the results of the use of those products in a residential steam shower. Yes, I'd be quite content to use Kerdi and any of the Schluter brand of thinset mortars to construct a residential steam shower, although it's very unlikely I'd actually use their mortars. See my warranty information below.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-05-2021, 08:41 PM   #18
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Oh boy

@Cx or any other moderator - Please change the title to "Steam Room waterproofing technical questions"
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Unread 05-06-2021, 09:20 AM   #19
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I was the keeper of the box. Many people doubted it's validity. There was no secret, it was exactly as appears. I might add we had other boxes using other manufacturers products when we hosted their courses. I have no dog in this fight but don't beleive Issac properly installed the product. Just wish I didn't have to watch six revenue producing ads to come to that opinion. Nicely done video regardless of accuracy.
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Unread 05-06-2021, 10:54 PM   #20
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I can't remember the link now, but that video has been debunked by someone that applied the kerdi properly in a cardboard box, and it lasted over 50 days without leaks. I recall that particular guy doesn't have many followers, so it doesn't get seen as much, unfortunately. The shock videos are what sells, regardless of whether they installed it correctly.

Edit: found it: https://youtu.be/huGpE1bot00
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Unread 05-06-2021, 11:03 PM   #21
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KerdiDS was developed to handle the perm factor the industry settled on for commercial steam showers. Those could be running 24/7, potentially with no time (except maybe for cleaning) to ever dry out. A residential steam shower would rarely be used more than a bit per day, with plenty of time in between to dry out, so while you can use KerdiDS, regular Kerdi works just fine assuming you follow instructions and have good workmanship. Basically KerdiDS is thicker and has a lower perm factor than Kerdi, but both are liquid water tight when installed properly.

Those two things apply to almost any build, whether a steam shower, regular shower, or really, anything you might want to tile and waterproof.
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Unread 05-11-2021, 09:59 AM   #22
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@Dave G, sorry about the ads, I use "ublock" for the internet and never see ads anywhere, you tube included.

@Shaklee Thanks for posting that. It "seems" like Issac must of not had an optimal install, yet when you watch the video he shows everything he did, and you really don't see what it could be. This was a point I made earlier too, if the install really has to be 100% perfect, that itself is a problem.

About the video you posted, first off he uses something that appears to be not even thinset, I have no idea what it is really but it has a blueish colour and does not have thinset consistency, so it is either not thinset or it is heavily modified with something, at any rate it is no longer apples to apples he puts it on every seam. I also found the following comments from at least 2 people under the video interesting and it makes perfect sense to me:

"Cardboard box test don't work! Do it with drywall or clear glass. The amount of time for the water to seep under the band is slow enough that the air coming from the back of the cardboard can dry it out."

Thus, I agree with him, cardboard box tests are null and void

@jadnashua - Yes all that is a given, but, why no warranty? Very disappointing, I never did get a call back from a Rep either
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Unread 05-11-2021, 10:11 AM   #23
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At the 3:40 mark of this video, you can see what the colour and consistency of Shuter All-set actually looks like, aka nothing like what was used in that 50 day cardboard box test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOUilIVbfw
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Unread 07-23-2021, 02:06 PM   #24
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Hi all. Things have progressed despite the house working against us. Is a 1/16" grout line only okay for a big 24 x 48 tile?

TIA
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Unread 07-23-2021, 02:55 PM   #25
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Jon, the industry recommendation is that the grout joint be three times the difference in size between the largest and smallest tile of the same nominal size in your layout, but never less than 1/16th of an inch.

If your tiles are perfectly rectified, it's at least theoretically possible to use a 1/16th-inch grout joint. Actually doing it will still require skilled hands.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-29-2021, 12:04 PM   #26
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Thanks CX, I am kind of confused by the answer though. The smallest tile will be 24 x 48, so I'm not sure what size the joint would be, 3 times that size obviously isn't the right interpretation. Or maybe you mean the 9mm thickness, though that would still be too big? The difference in size between the tiles would be zero, and that is zero so also not right!

I have another technical question regarding foam board as well. How similar are Prova and Wedi to the Kerdi foam boards? It appears they all use similar foam, but what about the water proof outer layer? It appears Kerdi uses purely a felt type material, where as the other two incorporate some cement in their water proofing?
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Unread 07-29-2021, 02:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
...three times the difference in size between the largest and smallest tile of the same nominal size...
It's the measured difference between the tiles of the same advertised size, Jon. You need to stand several tiles on edge, face to back, and lay a straight edge across the top edges to judge the difference in size. If there is, for example, 1/16th-inch size difference, the industry recommended joint width would be 3/16ths of an inch. If you measure zero difference (on either side), you could use a 1/16th-inch joint. If you can physically maintain such a joint, of course.

Never seen a Prova board. I know Wedi board facing is dramatically different from Kerdi board facing. It's my understanding that they all depend upon the foam to provide the actual waterproofing, but the method of waterproof joining between panels is different. You want to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions very carefully with all of them.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-30-2021, 09:52 AM   #28
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Aha got it thanks! That makes a lot more sense now haha. I'm not sure of the logic there though, maybe it would make more of a difference for smaller tiles?

Okay thanks I did not like the looks of the Prova and never heard of them either, Wedi I think is good but honestly I prefer Laticrete above ALL others, Shuter included, will talk to my installer and hope he'll cave, they have not used it before and Shuter out of stock currently....
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Unread 07-30-2021, 12:33 PM   #29
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1/16" is going to be too tight, even if they are rectified. I would highly recommend at least 1/8".
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Unread 07-30-2021, 02:32 PM   #30
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Jon, the voice in post #28 is one I'd be inclined to listen to on this matter, even if he is a Yankee now.
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