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Unread 12-10-2019, 09:32 PM   #16
ded dux
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43lbs per board....you fellas have at it.
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Unread 12-10-2019, 09:59 PM   #17
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That's only about four pounds heavier than regular Hardiebacker panels, Don. You young sprouts aughta be able to handle that with no problem at all, eh?
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Unread 12-12-2019, 09:21 PM   #18
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Because of the way they have marketed regular Hardibacker most consumers already think it is waterproof. Glad they are finally coming clean.
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Unread 12-14-2019, 10:18 AM   #19
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Here it is. The red (pink?) coating is definitely only on one side. I think someone mentioned that it's waterproof throughout so maybe the red is just for marketing?

If I hadn't bought my stuff already I would've bought a sheet just to mess around with.

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Unread 12-14-2019, 11:56 AM   #20
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Going back to Jim's post #15, wonder if this can be buried in the mudbed. Anyone know?

Maybe it'll be a big seller, I don't know. Out of the hundreds of showers I've torn out, I can remember only a few that had a moisture barrier of any type installed.
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Unread 12-15-2019, 10:19 AM   #21
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I use the new systems and new products but I do question whether or not the new style systems are a better approach. Do you want the water on the surface or would it be better to drain down?

I know this is blasphemy. The internet will forget this in a few years, right?
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Unread 12-16-2019, 08:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy
Going back to Jim's post #15, wonder if this can be buried in the mudbed. Anyone know?
I've never built cement board showers, but I say bury it. If you don't, how are you going to secure the bottom of the board against the wall?
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Unread 12-16-2019, 10:27 AM   #23
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It's still an ASTM C1288 product (Fiber/Cement Board) as opposed to a C1325 product (Cement Backer Board) and the Hardiebacker manufacturer still says in his installation instructions for the new waterproof backer:

"• Do not place cement board into the shower pan mortar bed."

I suppose you can embed it if you want, but if James Hardie still doesn't recommend it, I don't think it's a good idea.
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Unread 12-16-2019, 11:15 AM   #24
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FWIW, the installation instructions say it is both "ASTM C1288 Grade II" compliant and "ASTM C1325" compliant.

Cheers, Wayne
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Unread 12-16-2019, 11:54 AM   #25
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Where do you find that, Wayne? I missed it in my research.

I see that now in the same document where I found the quote above, Wayne. Not sure just how they can claim that when C1325 specifically excludes "...discrete non-asbestos fiber cement interior substrate sheets (Specification C1288)." Gotta be either fish or fowl. Don't think it can be both.
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Unread 12-24-2019, 03:26 PM   #26
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I've always buried any cbu. I don't know if they changed the rules for Hardibacker some years back or if I just never knew what they were. But if I were to install Hardibacker in a shower again I would bury it in the pan. I don't care if it's the waterproof version, or not.
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Unread 12-25-2019, 11:07 PM   #27
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If you look at the spec sheet of stock HardieBacker, it says it can contain up to 15% cellulose (wood fiber). Not a great thing to have buried in a conventional mudbed that you know will be damp. Haven't looked at the spec sheet of the 'waterproof' version. That fiber does make the stuff stiffer and less likely to crack, but other than that, could be an issue. Cellulose does swell if it gets saturated.
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Unread 02-17-2020, 02:25 PM   #28
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Long time reader, the forum has helped me get through a few projects with no need to post questions in the past. Figured I would make an account to share some info since I just tried out this hydrodefense on a shower surround.

Very short take:
I don't think it makes sense for either pros or DIY folks.

  • Construction
When they say it's "waterproof throughout" I had expected to find some additive mixed in with the portland cement and distributed throughout. In reality it appears to just be a bunch of layers of normal fiber cement with the red coating on them. You can't see this on the factory cuts, but with a clean cut from a circular saw it's very visible (pic attached).
It seems to split even EASIER than normal hardi board does. For the narrow strips down the side of the tub I pre drilled holes 5/8 in from the edge and STILL had them snap in half using "backer on" screws and trying to drive in and back off. Ended up having to dull an old counter sinking bit and pre drill the counter sink as well to get the backer on screws flush without splitting.

So with that, a bit harder to fasten than regular hardi. Which is a lot more of a PITA to fasten than durock and durock is more of a pain than the foam boards.
  • Edges and penetrations
The documents from hardi say you need a fluid applied waterproofing for all joints and pentrations and that you should coat exposed edges (IE wicking). So now we are in for all the time to detail the corners without pinholes and waiting to dry between coats. I don't know about others, but for me rolling out the field with a fluid applied takes no time at all. I see only a nominal amount of time spend there. For the DIY crowd if you're buying a container of redgard or aquadefense you've already got enough to do a whole tub surround with 1 gallon.

If you could use a sealant between joints ala wedi board I could at least see some time savings. James Hardie does not spec that in their literature though (I originally bought some to do this, but decided I shouldn't do an install method the manufacture doesn't approve on a place I'm selling).
  • Waterproof?
The part you've all been waiting for, how waterproof is it? Well on my panels there was some residue from the backs of non coated sides during transit, so I cleaned them off with a damp sponge as best as I could. Then I tried spraying down the board with a bottle. Water did kind of bead up, but it also seemed to wick out across the face of the board some. It dried far faster than I would expect given the temp and humidity.
When I put redgard on the seams things got more interesting. There was a semigloss paint on the walls that I just lightly scuffed up. So we've got a "vapor retarder" on the wall, but the drywall certainly isn't waterproof.

Now if the hydrodefense on one side is truly water proof I would expect it to dry evenly on both sides of the seam to drywall since the water can only go outward.

That did not happen. The hydrodefense side went red on one side of the tub in the time it took me to get around the tub the hardi side was full red and the drywall side was still totally pink. Where did that moisture go? I have not other explanation other than it had to be wicking into the hydrodefense board.

After the second coat on the corners/seams I decided to just roll on the remaining redgard over the whole surround. I had the product, no sense in tossing it. Here you can see the same drying behavior in the middle of the field, the areas which had a prior coat of redgard stay pink far longer than bare hydrodefense board facing did. This was all just rolled on with a 3/4" nap roller.


So who is this really for? For the pros, I can't see paying double the material cost and then waiting for 2 coats of a liquid membrane to dry in the corners. Maybe if you used a seam tape for sheet membranes with a rapid thinset I could see some advantage to a standard cement board........but James Hardie doesn't spec that as an approved method.
For the DIY crowd, if you have to buy a container of liquid membrane already you've got enough to do a tub surround or smaller shower.

Maybe if you are a DIYer doing a larger walk in shower, you know that with 1 gallon of liquid membrane you could do all the seams, pan, and bottom 2 feet with a 1 gallon container it could save you on buying more liquid membrane? I dunno that seems like a stretch.

Personally my next bathroom is either going to be wedi board if I'm in a rush and feeling rich or durock and hydroban if I've got a day.
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Unread 02-17-2020, 02:27 PM   #29
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Oh one more thing, on the board in the pan note. James Hardie specs a 1/4" clearance. They don't specify between mud or a pre made pan. Seems like it would wick right out of the bed into the board. I wouldn't try treating it like a real cement board, but I'm not a gambling man.
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Unread 02-17-2020, 02:47 PM   #30
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Hardie specs state it is waterproof throughout. No idea what the color imparts to it....
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