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Unread 02-25-2019, 08:10 PM   #16
Lou_MA
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I can’t speak as to whether a poly barrier between slab and lumber will be adequate.

I can say that with the options of using more stable products for the curb (e.g. Kerdi board, masonry units, etc), and the significant amount of labor it would take to repair a curb that had moisture problems, it would be cheap insurance in my mind to use one of the first options. I can’t see why a contractor would have a problem with that.

And if your stud bays are now covered in poly sheeting, you’ll want to defeat that (either remove it, or slice it open in multiple spots) before installing Kerdi, to avoid having a double barrier that can trap moisture.
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Unread 02-25-2019, 08:31 PM   #17
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Yeah, that should suffice, Mike, but technically you're not building what the industry considers a Continuous Use Steam Room. And Kerdi alone is not suitable vapor proofing for such steam rooms. It requires a separate vapor retarder behind the wallboard in that application.

What you can point to is your checkbook to remind him who has authority to write in it. If you know you don't have a proper vapor barrier under your concrete SOG, tell him you don't want a wood curb under a properly installed Kerdi shower receptor.

It would be helpful if you'd add a geographic location to your User Profile to help folks in answering some types of questions.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-25-2019, 09:22 PM   #18
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I am more confused than ever. There is black paper against the one exterior wall. I don’t believe the others do, and there is poly covering the insulation.

I believe concrete board will cover that and then the Kerdi membrane on top. Is the concern that any moisture that makes it’s way to the concrete board will have nowhere to go?

If it matters, it’s an intermittent use steam shower, not a continuous one.

Added location to profile.

Thanks again.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 10:06 AM   #19
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Mike, we generally discourage the use of two vapor retarders in regular shower walls to prevent trapping moisture in the wallboards. The tile industry recently changed the vapor permeability requirements for direct bonded waterproofing membranes when used in continuous use steam showers. Part of that change is to actually require a secondary vapor barrier material behind the wallboard when the direct bonded waterproofing membrane has a perm rating of more than 0.5 perms. I personally think that was a terrible decision on their part, but I was not invited to vote.

For your residential steam shower I would want a low perm (less than 1.0 perm) direct bonded waterproofing membrane on the inside of the shower and no significant vapor retarder behind the wallboard at all. My recommendation would be for USG Durock Shower System membrane as it has a lower perm rating than the Kerdi.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 10:34 AM   #20
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Thanks CX.

I was up in the middle of the night for hourse stressing about this. I understand the concern of sandwiching the concrete board between two waterproof barriers. But if it's actually the code to do it that way, then I don't think I have a leg to stand on with the contractor. Further to that, cement board is highly resistant to mould, rot etc. So even if it's sandwiched, isn't it safe?

Still hoping to get an answer on light - none of the electrical stores have an answer and most stressful, neither does the contractor who is building it.

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Unread 02-26-2019, 11:19 AM   #21
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Has nothing at all to do with code, Mike, but it is in the TCNA Handbook representing the industry consensus for continuous use steam showers.

For your residential steam shower the requirement is that your "Bonded waterproof membrane (sheet, liquid, and trowel-on) must be continuous and must adequately limit vapor transmission into adjacent spaces and building materials, according to intended duration of use as a steam shower.

Is it a real problem to sandwich a water impervious material between two vapor barriers? I dunno, but I'd want to avoid it. The walls with the roofing felt behind the wallboard will be of less concern than the ones with polyethylene sheeting. Your house, your choice.

On the light fixture, type steam and light (all three words) into the Advanced Search feature and ask for Titles. I think you'll find some recommendations there. Or visit an actual lighting store.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 02-26-2019, 02:27 PM   #22
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Thanks for the search advice. I have seen many of the threads while looking around.

WendyHMN says
The trim is Juno shower. When I put up the kerdi I glued it to the housing with kerdi-fix to keep any vapor from escaping into the unheated attic space. After tiling, I installed the shower trim with a ring of Latisil 100@ silicone caulk instead of the stupid foam gasket.

JohnBridge says
Any lighting store will have what is termed a "vapor-proof" light. It has a rubber gasket that seals the lens part to the can. That's what I would use.

FireWrks7 also used the Juno.
https://juno.acuitybrands.com/produc...uction-Housing

Local lighting company - the first that actually offered a viable product had a $500 CDN light made for steam rooms by a company called Zaniboni. https://zanibonilighting.com/luna-2-nc.html - but it would take at least 2-3 weeks to arrive. (Just called and manufacturer actually says 4-6 weeks)

EDIT: I just had a brain flash. I don't need the light when I'm in the steam, I need the light when I'm in the shower - so the temperature rating of the light is less important. I can leave the light off (and use the bathroom lighting) when I'm in the steam. Surely this mitigates some of the risk.
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Unread 02-27-2019, 08:55 AM   #23
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Cooper came back with this suggestion for an IP66 rated light. Challenge still seems to be that it's rated to 40C, not 45C. I don't know how much of an issue this is or if it's any better than the non-commercial version.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...d/_851403.html
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Unread 02-27-2019, 12:42 PM   #24
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FWIW I decided to avoid the stress of the lights and just put them beside the glass outside of the shower enclosure. The light has to travel 40" so it will be fine.

The contractor is building the curb out of cement. Hopefully that solves all the problems.
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Unread 03-28-2019, 02:56 PM   #25
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Schluter ditra heat under concrete

Hi,

The ditra-heat system is freshly installed but isn't warming much - for example, it reads at 90F and is barely warm.

The contractor poured concrete on top of the ditra rather than laying tile directly on top. Is this the cause of the problem, or is this a suitable installation choice?

Any advice? I have to assume that running it at 90F all the time will also cost a fortune.

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Unread 03-28-2019, 03:27 PM   #26
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Tile is supposed to be installed directly over the Ditra Heat. Not sure why the contractor thought it necessary to place concrete over the heating element. How much concrete are we talking?
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Unread 03-28-2019, 03:28 PM   #27
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I’m guessing an inch. Not sure.
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Unread 03-28-2019, 03:34 PM   #28
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Makes no sense to some of us, Mike. What's the application? This some part of your steam shower project?
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Unread 03-28-2019, 04:12 PM   #29
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Are you sure it was concrete? It seems more likely that he used a self leveling underlayment. What is below the ditra heat (wood subfloor/slab)? Do you have any progress pics of the install?
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Unread 03-28-2019, 04:34 PM   #30
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The application is in floor heating in the non-shower part of the bathroom. When I asked contractor if he poured concrete on top he said “yes”.
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