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Unread 10-19-2019, 11:18 AM   #16
eurob
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The only profit is for the client.
Structural integrity and longevity would be a must for wet locations where tile covered surface is to be installed.

CBU is the only choice .
Protect your investment by choosing a structural stable product , where water in any form do not dammage it , regardless of the way is entering it.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 01:39 AM   #17
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I would charge a bit more than Tonto for CBU vs sheetrock. Cement board is twice the cost, much more difficult to cut, and heavier per square foot.

If sheetrock is approved by the manufacturer of the waterproofing being used (just Schluter for now), then there are few advantages to using cement board instead.

The only advantage of real value to me would be in the event of a water leak inside the wall, the tile in the shower would be saved, rather than demolished as an indirect result of the damaged sheetrock.

Other than that, I trust the waterproofing product to work, and trust myself to install it properly.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 07:05 AM   #18
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I'd have no problem laying roofing felt over sheetrock, stapling some wire to it, and mudding a tub or shower.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 10:51 AM   #19
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Justin
My only problem with that is if there were a leaking pipe or valve assembly the sheet rock would absorb the water. I'm sure the wire and mud would hold up no problem.
I did have a customer have me look at a tile job that was cracking on the wall. Shower was leaking on ceiling below. Did a flood test of the pan and it held water for 3 days. Everything looked good in corners. What was happening was roof leak dripping into insulation behind green board soaking green board from behind and leaking onto ceiling below.
It was a double whammy for the customer. New roof and shower. The mold behind that green board was disgusting.
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Unread 10-20-2019, 12:06 PM   #20
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That a good point Dave, if I control it from studs to tile I’ll usually scratch and brown. I can see your point of the drywall being the weak point in a one coat setup, and I’ll remember the concerns and pass them on if I’m asked to go over drywall again.

At the end of the day for me a LOT of things could happen, but if a major leak does happen I’d assume people would remove things just for peace of mind. But your point will remain with me moving forward.
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Unread 10-22-2019, 07:07 AM   #21
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In todays almost airtight homes there is less chance of moisture that gets into the wall cavity to escape.(leaks,vapor,condensation, etc) This is setting up a potential for problems down the road especially with a food source like Gyp.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 03:48 PM   #22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT430p-hu-o

In a lot of Europe, the tile manufacturers advocate liquid membranes straight to drywall. This video from Mapei Hungary shows Aquadefense straight to drywall, though the difference there is they use a Kerdi-band kind of tape with the installs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT8Azsx2IB8
This BAL kit uses a tape band basically like we have in USA, though, with its liquid membrane.

My personal opinion of what happened was, I've read data sheets from about 99 or so using Archive.org. Apparently greenboard used to be sold as waterproof board, and USG warrantied it for tile in lighter residential use without waterproofing at all, as long as you siliconed the corners and used hot mud and/or their waterproof joint compound.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000526...wall/wb634.htm

In this TDS for green board, it does say to tile over it for residential showers. So I think this to some extent is why some "old timers" are confused and balk at waterproofing. As in the 90s apparently USG themselves said it wasn't needed. USG also didn't have the bedding Durock into thinset on floors in the 90s either, according to the TDS. https://web.archive.org/web/19991009...t/cb-399sb.pdf
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Unread 10-27-2019, 08:42 AM   #23
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While I agree with the concerns here, I also believe you have levels of attention to details in real world environments. While I can see advocating for the safer choice to the masses, one example being Schluters thinset mortar recommendation, a meticulous professional with understanding on how the system functions is a different audience.

While we can hedge against what-if's, I believe when one encounters the variety of situations on the job you're going to have different experience levels addressing these issues.

Is this conversation being directed at someone who lets things slip or someone who makes a living on their reputation to build a vessel with water management in mind? I will have separate responses based on the audience this topic is being addressed to.
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Unread 10-27-2019, 09:07 AM   #24
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I think that a very valid point, Justin. There are probably some parts of the "ANSI Specifications for the Installation of Ceramic Tile" (and other standards) from which I have not deviated in some way over my many years of residential building and remodeling, but probably only because they never came up in the course of what I was doing or because I was not aware at the time that there was even a standard for that particular application. Many ways to successfully skin most cats and most of them not addressed by any National Standards committees or product manufacturers.

But overall, if a fella follows the written standards, 'specially a fella who is not trained or experienced in that particular aspect of the industry, he's likely to do better than if he goes blindly down a different path. Now, if he's researched the "different path" and done due diligence in its direction, he may very well end up with a useful or even superior product in the end, despite there being a different Standard for the operation.

Still, the safest course of action is gonna be the tried and true and that is generally gonna be covered by the applicable National Standard. And that has traditionally been what we here at TYW have preached to our visitors. Not saying that it's the only way, just that it's a way known to be both safe and effective if followed.

For the members who are in the trades professionally, it's also a good plan. But as with any plan in my experience, it just provides a starting point from which to thoughtfully deviate.
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Unread 10-27-2019, 07:10 PM   #25
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FWIW, if I read it correctly Laticrete also allows use of gypsum (drywall) behind their Hydro Ban sheet material in a shower. https://cdn.laticrete.com/~/media/pr...-membrane.ashx

It works. Larger sheets of drywall make it easier to deal with meaning fewer seams, and easier to cut and install, saving time and money in the process. If properly installed, it should never get wet.

The argument then comes up, what if the plumbing leaks? In most cases, if that happens, you have to tear things out, regardless, so I don't see the issue. You could argue similar things about drywall getting wet on a top story ceiling, around windows, or exterior doorways. We assume that the waterproofing there works, and don't worry about the fact that drywall can be damaged if it gets wet. Yes, a shower will see more moisture than a typical roof or window, but the idea is the same. IMHO, it comes down to proper workmanship. Do it right, and the various methods work. Mess up, and it fails.
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