Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 07-23-2022, 07:01 PM   #1
AshishK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: lexington MA
Posts: 5
Is my shower floor fit to use, water accumulating underneath the shower tiles

I recently noted that when I stand around a certain area in the shower floor, I felt a certain give on the floor and water would leak up from the broken grout joints and tiles. The tiles are small format and see several hairline fractures in them. When I stand in these areas the water squirts up from these fracture lines. I know the tiles and grouts are not waterproof. But is this acceptable?
This bathroom is on the second floor, and I do not see any evidence of water damage on the ceiling directly below the shower floor.
I have been living in this house for 2 years, and I believe the showers were renovated in 2014/2015. I see a Shluter-Kerdi shower drain. I have no idea what kind of waterproofing was done under the tile.
Is it safe to use the shower or do I have to replace the shower floor?
If I have to replace it, should I break and replace the floor tiles or tile-over-tile with an epoxy grout? I feel that I am fairly handy and recently redid my basement bathroom.
I am attaching some pictures to show you the hairline fractures.
Attached Images
    
__________________
Ashish
AshishK is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 07-23-2022, 08:04 PM   #2
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,072
Hi Ashish, welcome. Sounds like you have a Kerdi shower. The tiles are bonded directly to the Kerdi and it can easily be damaged if you remove the tiles, so I wouldn't do that. Since it's not leaking, you can continue using the shower.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2022, 08:38 PM   #3
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,990
It looks like the grate of a Schluter drain. One thing that can happen is if the hole through the floor is oversized, there isn't the proper support for it, and the pan can fracture. Normally, there'd not be enough material to hold enough water to squish out if it was loose.

But, if there's no evidence of moisture leaking through onto the ceiling below, it sounds like it's still watertight.

If you wanted to be sure, you might want to make a small hole in the ceiling to check. If you have an inspection camera, it doesn't need to be a very big hole, either.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-23-2022, 11:53 PM   #4
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 12,287
The water pushing up through the tiles is what gives me cause for concern. I would second the idea of inspecting from below.

Nowadays you can get an inspection camera from Amazon for $40. It may seem like a lot for one use, but it beats cutting a large square out and having to replace it, tape, mud, paint, etc. With the camera you can repair the hole with a bit of caulk.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 08:32 AM   #5
AshishK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: lexington MA
Posts: 5
Thank you every one for your advice. I feel more comfortable using the shower now, I will try to use a camera to look inside.
__________________
Ashish
AshishK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 08:35 AM   #6
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,205
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
I dunno. If you can feel a "give" in the floor and water is pushed up through the grout and cracks in the tile, I feel like the tile is no longer bonded to (whatever is) the sub straight below it. It shouldn't be moving, and the cracks in the tile also indicate that it is. I wonder if mastic was used to install the tile.

Regardless, if it is moving then you really shouldn't just tile over as a quick fix, the new tile and grout are likely to also crack.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 08:40 AM   #7
AshishK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: lexington MA
Posts: 5
I can only feel the give when the shower floor is wet. Not really sure if mastic was used. I would think not, as another bathroom renovated at the same time has no such issue.
__________________
Ashish
AshishK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 09:15 AM   #8
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,205
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Probably needless to say, Ashish, wet or dry there should be no movement, and cracked tile and grout certainly suggests there is. While the waterproofing layer may not have been compromised, something isn't right. Nevertheless, if it isn't leaking it's ok to keep using it as is. But I wouldn't attempt to tile over it.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 09:47 AM   #9
AshishK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: lexington MA
Posts: 5
Thank you for your suggestions. I plan to look with a camera from the floor underneath to see if there is any damage. If damaged then I guess I have to remove the shower floor, water proofing membrane/board and remove the first row of tiles from the wall to redo it?
__________________
Ashish
AshishK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 09:58 AM   #10
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,205
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
"If damaged then I guess I have to remove the shower floor, water proofing membrane/board and remove the first row of tiles from the wall to redo it?"

In a nutshell, yes. How easy, or difficult that might be depends on how the shower was built, and you're unlikely to discover that until you take it apart. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst; worst being a complete, top to bottom demo and rebuild.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 10:46 AM   #11
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,072
I think it's a Kerdi shower since Ashish said it has a Kerdi - Schluter drain. Makes me wonder if it has a foam tray under it and maybe it wasn't supported well around the drain.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 11:53 AM   #12
AshishK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: lexington MA
Posts: 5
Thanks. it is certainly possible. will keep this in mind as I investigate further.
__________________
Ashish
AshishK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 02:01 PM   #13
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,990
If the hole through the subflooring was oversized, or they did not embed the pan well into the thinset, or if the thinset had skinned over prior to setting the pan, it may not be properly supported. Any movement over time can cause debonding, cracking of the grout, and sometimes the tile, too.

One thing people often don't follow is the instruction to wipe the area with a wet sponge prior to applying the thinset. This does two things, removes any (well, most!) dust, but as important, helps prevent the dry subflooring from sucking moisture out of the thinset, that can cause it to dry out prior to setting the pan on top. THen, you need to sort of do the shuffle across the whole thing to help flatten the trowel ridges and fully embed the pan.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-24-2022, 02:10 PM   #14
jerrymlr1
Registered User
 
jerrymlr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sarasota FL
Posts: 1,487
Sounds to me like the tile is not bonded to the kerdi, if that's whats below the tile. My bet is that the mesh that the tile is attached to has turned into mush and come unbonded. The tile floor will probably come up easily. Mesh/mush......
__________________
Jerry
jerrymlr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
water behind shower tiles oceanfrontcabin Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 07-20-2017 06:19 AM
Marble Shower Floor - Mosiac tile floor wet underneath? Charlie Hesson Tile Forum/Advice Board 11 03-23-2014 05:41 PM
gypsum substrate underneath shower floor gregrb Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 10-27-2009 02:50 PM
water underneath shower floor tile Terry Baker Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 04-05-2009 03:24 PM
water accumulating in cast iron drain? ryson Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 12-08-2006 10:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC